Now, X-vario or D-lux?

[Einst_Stein]

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If it doesn't have step-zoom, it's out of the running for me. I'm leaning toward the X though. Looking to simplify.

 

Dlux would have powered zoom? Oh no!. Thanks. The decision is made then.

[tom0511]

The most useful T lenses would be the 18-56zoom asnd 23mm prime. But for the same price I can get both X-vario and X2. The two pieces X set would be much more useful.

 

Maybe yes, maybe no,

 

The 23 prime is one stop faster, the 18-56 is longer than the x-zoom and faster. T Af is slightly faster and viewfinder is somewhat better. Don't forget the future option of other lenses (tele/wide)

 

On the other side the X2 is considerably smaller.

And of course different user interface, even though both have a simplicity which I really like.

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[Einst_Stein]

Maybe yes, maybe no,

 

The 23 prime is one stop faster, the 18-56 is longer than the x-zoom and faster. T Af is slightly faster and viewfinder is somewhat better. Don't forget the future option of other lenses (tele/wide)

 

On the other side the X2 is considerably smaller.

And of course different user interface, even though both have a simplicity which I really like.

 

For me it's definitely yes.

 

I can worry the future T lenses later. If it's something to get, I can get the T body and that lens later. I won't need the 23mm and 18-56mm zoom anyway, for they are covered by the X-vario and X2. Same price,m but much more convenience.

[Ecaton]

D-lux=jack of all trades. XV=master of a view. The shooting experience will be quite different. I have the XV but might buy the D-lux as well as the versatile family holiday cam, including 4k video my better half and teenage kid love, without compromising on IQ too much. The D-lux for the family, the X113 (just got mine yesterday) for dad.

[tom0511]

For me it's definitely yes.

 

I can worry the future T lenses later. If it's something to get, I can get the T body and that lens later. I won't need the 23mm and 18-56mm zoom anyway, for they are covered by the X-vario and X2. Same price,m but much more convenience.

 

For me the better viewfinder, somewhat faster AF and longer range/faster lens of the T make it my prefered option over the X-Vario. I get more in Focus Images with the T than I did with the X-Vario, I can blur the Background better at the Long end (85 equivalent/f5.6 vs 70 equivalent/f6.3)

 

On the other side I will still Keep the X2 for the times when I want a small camera, which fits in my jacket pockets.

 

Anyways, X-Vario is still a very nice underrated (by many) camera. And I think the X-Line is "better looking/more classic" than the T-Line.

[jjb]

D-lux=jack of all trades. XV=master of a view. The shooting experience will be quite different. I have the XV but might buy the D-lux as well as the versatile family holiday cam, including 4k video my better half and teenage kid love, without compromising on IQ too much. The D-lux for the family, the X113 (just got mine yesterday) for dad.

 

Ecaton, I hope you will share your observations with us if you do buy the D-Lux, as you would be in a great position to compare and contrast it to your X-Vario. I also will be eager to know your impressions of the new X113, possibly in a thread devoted to that model.

[onceuponatime]

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Sensor size wise, it seems X-vario is the choice, but I'm also tempted by DLux's f1.7~f2.8. lens.

 

if you also has experiences with X-vario.

 

Xvario for me had the same issues I had with my Digiulx 2 which made me part with my Digilux 2 to a good home.

After a while I just wasnt carrying the Digilux2 with me as it too big for what it does.

Same with XVario when I tested it a couple of times.

Xvario also has no built in evf, which was a no,

 

Now the DLUX m43 1.33x crop of APSC yep its compact enough for me with that Sumilux 1.7 - Elmarit 2.8

For once there is a high quality built in EVF.

3cm close focus is special for such a larger sensor.

 

Ok it has power zoom which is for video.

If a manual zoom ring was on lens barrel then we could be looking at Xvario size lens, which is a no.

 

Way lens tech has moved on since Digiluix 2, I expect DLux lens to be same quality as Digilux2 and better than Xavrio lens.

 

Sometimes I like convenience of AF, Dlux will have a lot faster AF than XVario.

Edited September 24, 2014 by onceuponatime

[Einst_Stein]

Xvario for me had the same issues I had with my Digiulx 2 which made me part with my Digilux 2 to a good home.

After a while I just wasnt carrying the Digilux2 with me as it too big for what it does.

Same with XVario when I tested it a couple of times.

Xvario also has no built in evf, which was a no,

 

Now the DLUX m43 1.33x crop of APSC yep its compact enough for me with that Sumilux 1.7 - Elmarit 2.8

For once there is a high quality built in EVF.

3cm close focus is special for such a larger sensor.

 

Ok it has power zoom which is for video.

If a manual zoom ring was on lens barrel then we could be looking at Xvario size lens, which is a no.

 

Way lens tech has moved on since Digiluix 2, I expect DLux lens to be same quality as Digilux2 and better than Xavrio lens.

 

Sometimes I like convenience of AF, Dlux will have a lot faster AF than XVario.

 

I have Dlux 4. It is even smaller than the new Dlux. What I learn from it is, the combination of a good lens and the sensor dynamic range is my number one concern. The body size is not a concern once it is in the range of Leica M, smaller may even be a drawback.

 

I wish Dlux have a manual zoom. If it has to be motorized, and if I were Panasonic, I woud make the control switch to have clicks. In stead of pushing left for wide pushing right for tele, i would make it like the shutter speed dial, give it clicks at 24,28,35,50,75, and make it zooming really really fast from click to click. It can be continues zoom when the switch stays between the clicks.

 

With Panasonic back hisotry, i am sure in a year or so, the next version will be available. I bet the zoom will be extended to 90mm, at least. Hope Panasonic see my post and implement it then.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Einst_Stein

[onceuponatime]

Thing is Xvario is a bridge, as was Digilux 2.

Dlux is fast compact.

 

I had a few of the best bridge cameras from a decade or more ago

Sony f505 & f717, Olympus c8080, of course Digilux 2.

Fast compacts that came later caught up with them,

although obviously not with lens quality of Digilux 2.

 

IMO Dlux will be shown to have caught up with X1 X2, XE, Xvario in IQ

Whilst Dlux lens with ten years advancement will be equal to Digilux 2 lens.

[mrware]

Dlux would have powered zoom? Oh no!. Thanks. The decision is made then.

 

If it's like the past D-Lux models, it's a powered zoom. I'm no fan, but step zoom allows you to go directly from 28 -35 - 50 and so on. It's a big help.

 

I have a V-Lux 4 and it's a power zoom. It's fine for landscapes and things that don't move much, but I tried shooting my daughter's soccer game with it. Though I did get a few nice shots, the power zoom was very frustrating in that setting as I thought it would be compared to a dslr or other camera with a mechanical zoom. It was more of a sniping experience that actually following the action. Not really a knock on the V-Lux but a prime example of horses for courses.

 

The X-Vario is nice in that you can set shutter, aperture and focal length without even having the camera turned on. I find value in that. I can take it out of the bag, turn it on and it's ready.

Edited September 30, 2014 by mrware

[Loplop]

Everything is, of course, conjecture until real-world experiences from the D-Lux arrive; however, I think some sweeping generalizations can be made. Ask your wife if she values compactness or image quality more. If the answer is compactness, you only have 1 choice: the D-Lux. If the answer is image quality, I personally would choose the X Vario, as the lens is outstanding and there's no way today's technology will yield as pleasing of a lens for the D-Lux. (I'm sure it will be good, but it won't be THAT good!)

 

Even then, the new D-Lux is not as compact as her old D-Lux, and she may not be happy with the protrusion of the lens. I have a Fuji X20 which is essentially the same size as the new D-Lux, and it's not what I would call "pants-pocketable" like an older D-Lux. But I'd give it a try if she values compactness over IQ.

 

If she answers "IQ" I would without hesitation recommend the X-V. While the "mini M" campaign gave it a bad name, it is only now after using an X-V for quite some time that I see what Leica was thinking... It really IS a mini-M!

[colonel]

I agree. The thing is that if you want a zoom based fixed lens (or just small) camera which doesn't have a powered zoom, has a APS-c sensor, silent shutter and very sharp lens, unless I am mistaken the x-Vario is the only game in town.

BTW I consider the Panny GM1 and GM5 as the main contender except that the kit zoom is not that sharp which means you need to get the 12-35mm f2.8. A great combo but IMHO the XV has the edge for IQ and definitely for ergonomics

[Einst_Stein]

If it's like the past D-Lux models, it's a powered zoom. I'm no fan, but step zoom allows you to go directly from 28 -35 - 50 and so on. It's a big help.

 

I have a V-Lux 4 and it's a power zoom. It's fine for landscapes and things that don't move much, but I tried shooting my daughter's soccer game with it. Though I did get a few nice shots, the power zoom was very frustrating in that setting as I thought it would be compared to a dslr or other camera with a mechanical zoom. It was more of a sniping experience that actually following the action. Not really a knock on the V-Lux but a prime example of horses for courses.

 

The X-Vario is nice in that you can set shutter, aperture and focal length without even having the camera turned on. I find value in that. I can take it out of the bag, turn it on and it's ready.

 

After deeper throughout, I convinced my wife and myself to take the X-vario. The major decision is that Dlux is Panasonic's design, not Leica's, although it does "meet Leica's standard" and is "the closet to Leica's lens standard (Panasonic) even built".

[onceuponatime]

"You can use the lens ring to set the zoom position in steps from 24, 28, 35, 50, 70 and 75mm , or use the zoom ring around the shutter release button for more precise control over the zoom position.

The setting changed by the lens ring can be customised in the camera menus to alter zoom, step zoom, ISO, white balance, filter or turned off completely. "

[C Lei Lux]

"You can use the lens ring to set the zoom position in steps from 24, 28, 35, 50, 70 and 75mm , or use the zoom ring around the shutter release button for more precise control over the zoom position.

The setting changed by the lens ring can be customised in the camera menus to alter zoom, step zoom, ISO, white balance, filter or turned off completely. "

 

I used on my D-Lux 6 exclusive the step-zoom-modus. thats perfect, like all-in-one prime objektives.

[onceuponatime]

Heavy AA filter on lens of Dlux Typ 109.

[Archiver]

BTW I consider the Panny GM1 and GM5 as the main contender except that the kit zoom is not that sharp which means you need to get the 12-35mm f2.8. A great combo but IMHO the XV has the edge for IQ and definitely for ergonomics

 

The Panasonic GM1 often surprises me with its image quality and 'look', and the combination of respectable image quality and very small size often make me use it in lieu of the M9.

 

Having said that, an aps-c sensor like the 12mp Sony sensor in the Ricoh GXR and Fuji X100 (original) still surpasses it in richness and depth of colour. Even though the sensors in the Olympus EM-5 and Panasonic GM1 are a fair step ahead of older m43 sensors, IMO they still lag a bit behind aps-c. I see this particularly in the Olympus EM-5 images vs Ricoh GR and GXR images. The GM1 comes close but doesn't quite make it in absolute terms.

 

The X Vario's lens does limit the look of images under a range of situations. For example, a dimly lit jazz club is not going to lend itself to a slow zoom lens, no matter how high you can pump the ISO. The new D-Lux ought to fare better in such situations. But in good light, the X Vario can produce wonderful images with the benefit of aps-c colour and 'depth'.