jaapv Posted June 19, 2014 Share #21 Posted June 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would think live view usage, as well as use of the advanced metering modes even with the optical finder would be additional factors affecting shutter life of the M240. Hopefully it has been designed to withstand more actuations than the M9's. I think this type of catastrophic failure has nothing to do with shutter life. Leica will not give a rating ( a bit like Rolls Royce: sufficient, I guess), but I would be very surprised to see anybody on this forum who manages to wear out a shutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 Hi jaapv, Take a look here It broke, what happened?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
swamiji Posted June 19, 2014 Share #22 Posted June 19, 2014 A shutter actuation is a shutter actuation is a shutter actuation. I used to think that way, until I started paying attention to how many shutter actuations took place per photo. On the M8/9 it was pretty much one for one, and the image count matched shutter actualizations. It is no longer the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2014 Share #23 Posted June 19, 2014 A shutter actuation is a shutter actuation is a shutter actuation.Now repeat that 150.000 times Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted June 19, 2014 Share #24 Posted June 19, 2014 Shutter failure is really not the issue here, it is that 2-3 month wait before your camera is returned. I've had mirror box failure on my Canon 1Dx (although after 120,000 actuations), however being a CPS Platinum member my camera was repaired and back to me in 3 days (free shipping)! I suspect there would be a great deal less complaining about this failure or that failure if Leica service was indeed 'service' rather than what appears to be 'at Leica's leisure'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2014 Share #25 Posted June 19, 2014 If you use Leica's express service you can expect a similar turnaround and service. Opposed to Canon you don't have to have a Frequent Flyer Platinum Card. You have to pay though In my experience standard turnaround nowadays is about two weeks. Except of course, if there is a hiccup in the parts supply line. (Something more likely to happen with a small producer than with a giant company) Leica offers a "collect and deliver" service in many countries for a nominal fee. Leica frequently will provide a loaner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 19, 2014 Share #26 Posted June 19, 2014 It happens. Check your back lens element for damage caused by the failure also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted June 19, 2014 Share #27 Posted June 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you use Leica's express service you can expect a similar turnaround and service. Opposed to Canon you don't have to have a Frequent Flyer Platinum Card. You have to pay though In my experience standard turnaround nowadays is about two weeks. Except of course, if there is a hiccup in the parts supply line. (Something more likely to happen with a small producer than with a giant company) Leica offers a "collect and deliver" service in many countries for a nominal fee. Leica frequently will provide a loaner. Leica USA (NJ) is painfully slow, just in a conversation with them last week they quoted me 6-8 week turnaround on a lens calibration. I've had several really poor experience with NJ, in addition each time the camera or lenses came back I had to return them for incomplete service or other service related issues. These type of issues have been discussed and documented in the past. Perhaps you get better service, but I can assure you that is not the norm. You can only use the 'small producer card' so often before it gets very stale! BTW, turnaround for Canon if you are not a CPS member is less than 2 weeks (usually faster), I believe Nikon is the same. Why do I compare Nikon & Canon because they too like Leica have a $7k price tag on some of their cameras. I have not had service experience with Fuji, etc - If I have one and it breaks I simply replace it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted June 19, 2014 Share #28 Posted June 19, 2014 My M9 went to Leica USA for sensor remapping (vertical line in images) this year. The service required no parts, but took two months to complete (not counting shipping time). I think Leica service is usually very well done, and the service people are polite and try their best to be helpful. When I think "Leica service", I think "good, but expensive, and so slow you're sure it must be lost". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2014 Share #29 Posted June 19, 2014 I must admit that my experience is with Solms/Wetzlar, but from postings on this forum I understood that Leica USA had improved their service as well. Sorry to hear that does not go for all customers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted June 19, 2014 Share #30 Posted June 19, 2014 I would rather see the repair times extended than for them to choose the alternative of working their techs overtime. From having run a high-precision labor-intensive business, I know the latter does not bode well. Techs get burned out, sloppy, and it all goes to hell in a handbasket. Of course one could make the argument that given the prices of Leica, they should hire (in the American use of the word for you UK guys reading) more people than they need so as to keep turnaround times down. The reality is that they have no motivation to do that, as Leica buyers are remarkably accepting and complacent aside from the occasional forum rant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted June 19, 2014 Share #31 Posted June 19, 2014 I must admit that my experience is with Solms/Wetzlar, but from postings on this forum I understood that Leica USA had improved their service as well. Sorry to hear that does not go for all customers... Nope, indeed, it doesn't. I have recounted my recent M9 sensor woes whilst it was being cleaned, last week, by a Leica Mayfair technician: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/335466-friday-13th.html I have been a 'loyal' customer over the last 13 years, having bought tons of items; a new MM, M240, and 35 FLE in the last 10 months alone (but should that matter?). I wasn't even offered a loaner. 2 weeks repair time?? Ha ha ha!! I was quoted 2-3 months residency in Wetzlar for the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted June 19, 2014 Share #32 Posted June 19, 2014 Ouch, it hurts to look at the picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2014 Share #33 Posted June 19, 2014 Nope, indeed, it doesn't. I have recounted my recent M9 sensor woes whilst it was being cleaned, last week, by a Leica Mayfair technician: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/335466-friday-13th.html I have been a 'loyal' customer over the last 13 years, having bought tons of items; a new MM, M240, and 35 FLE in the last 10 months alone (but should that matter?). I wasn't even offered a loaner. 2 weeks repair time?? Ha ha ha!! I was quoted 2-3 months residency in Wetzlar for the M9. Well, loaners are usually basically provided if asked for, and sensors are produced in smallish batches, so you are probably looking at the next delivery. One of the joys of "just in time" parts delivery to current production processes. It translates as "usually rather late" in my experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted June 20, 2014 Share #34 Posted June 20, 2014 No doubt they'll fix it. But how fast? If my experiences are any indication, it could take several weeks, perhaps months. With something this drastic though, they should really just replace the entire body for you. The camera is almost new and have less than 5,000 exposures and less than 1 hour of video. On this 4 months journey I carried two M lenses, Summilux 35mm and 50mm. My mane cameras were Canon DSLR. I have had the following Leica's: M5, never had problems M6, broke the light meeter circuit after one year of use, still have that camera, love the size. M8, died and it took 3 months got get it repaired. Summilux 50mm element came loose, this was the previous version. M9, sensor developed "stains" and needed replacement M (240) broken shutter Just completed a online survey regarding Leica Protection Plan, Leica need what Canon is doing with CPS, super fast turn around and overall great service. I sent the 2 lenses in with the camera as I had noticed that the 50mm would not focus on infinity and there was a lot of metal shavings floating around. Yes, I am sure that they will do a fine repair, just hope it happen sooner rather than later. By the way I do Love my M and I have high hopes for the ISO upgrade coming any day now. Thanks Helge . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscheffler Posted June 20, 2014 Share #35 Posted June 20, 2014 If you use Leica's express service you can expect a similar turnaround and service. Opposed to Canon you don't have to have a Frequent Flyer Platinum Card. You have to pay though This is only available in the EU. I've used it, and yes, it cost a pretty penny, but I was able to get a lens repaired during a two week visit to Germany. Unfortunately the lens was fixed (sharp as it should be), but front focused and didn't hit infinity... so had to go back, along with my camera, the next time I was in the EU. In the past month or two I've had two black frame exposures where I know I didn't accidentally shoot the inside of the camera bag. As I posted in the lock-up thread, I had an instance while shooting a sequence, the fps rate suddenly jumped to around 5, rather than the usual ~3. The entire sequence was lost in the ether... I'm hoping the camera isn't developing a shutter problem. I'd guess I've put ~10K frames through it, and as a 'demo' camera, no idea how many were already on it. FWIW, my M9's shutter has survived to well over 100K based on EXIF decoding by the M9Info app... Like Peter, as a Canon shooter, I really appreciate the fast turnaround and improved service of the recently revamped CPS program. It would be great to see the same from Leica. As someone trying to use Leica M as part of my kit for paid work, not just personal snapshots, it would go a long way towards easing my nervousness about Leica NJ's turnaround times (my M9 had to wait about six weeks for the internal battery replacement back in early 2011...). Therefore I'm keeping the sometimes flaky M9 as backup for when this happens... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted June 20, 2014 Share #36 Posted June 20, 2014 I'd call that a catastrophic failure... I first noticed that something was terrible wrong when 2/3 of my pictures turned up black. Fortunately I check the images frequently while shooting. To my shock I discovered what you see on this picture. What had happened? I have sent the camera and the two lenses that I were using to Leica awaiting the verdict. Anyone experienced similar? Helge Pedersen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faranstudio Posted June 20, 2014 Share #37 Posted June 20, 2014 I believe this is where having a good relationship and support from your Leica dealer becomes important. I bought a brand new B+W UV filter for my two days old purchased Noctilux but because of the bad quality control from B+W and defect on the filter after mounting the filter the front barrel of the lens got scratched. It took 7 months for Leica to fix it!!! luckily I got a loaner from my dealer during this period which was very impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobeRiders Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share #38 Posted June 20, 2014 As several people have pointed out in previous replies to my posting we all beg Leica for faster turn around on any repair. It is also interesting to see that several members here are CPS members and we all praise this service. This is not a question of Leica being able to do faster turnarounds or not, but rather a question of how much will it cost us consumers for such a service. Personally I would be willing to pay an additional fee in form of a membership to get expedited turnaround on any service for my Leica cameras and lenses. I must admit that I am a little paranoid about cleaning my own sensors and from the above treads it seems like there are a few of us backed up by some bad stories. For this reason alone I could see a membership service agreement being justified granted there is a guaranteed turn around for this service. After having sent in my Leica M with the 35mm and 50mm for repair and cleaning I followed up with a phone call to Leica. The conversation ended with a promise that an email would be sent to me within a couple of days informing me about the extent of the repair and estimated turn around. That was Monday and no email came during the week so today, Friday, I called and found out that my camera will have a new shutter installed, cleaning of sensor and updated Firmware (it already have the latest Firmware?), the 50mm Summilux will be recalibrated (problem with infinity focusing) and cleaned and the 35mm Summilux had no statue. The schedule looks like this: Leica M (240) repair two weeks from today = Total 3 weeks Leica 50mm Summilux repair to be by August 1st = Total 7 weeks Leica 35mm Summilux repair/cleaning? = Total ? weeks Jim at Leica NJ is a super nice fellow and a pleasure to speak with. I expressed my wish to get both camera and the two lenses returned at the same time and he would do his best to see if that wish could be met. I will keep you all up to date on any further development and thanks for all your feedbacks and stories. It is very lonely around here with no digital rangefinder and my favorite lenses gone. Thanks, Helge Pedersen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 21, 2014 Share #39 Posted June 21, 2014 I wouldn't be too happy if Leica implemented a paid express repair service- if it meant that standard repairs were slowed down. Seems to me a better solution that they first try to speed up the standard process. In fact- for warranty repairs I don't think there should be any kind or tiered service at all: it should all be free and all be express. The idea that Leica may employ 'just in time' manufacturing processes, and that this may mean that parts are not available for repairs when needed- is also not acceptable to my mind. Spare parts should be stocked at all times- so they are there ready 'just in time'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 21, 2014 Share #40 Posted June 21, 2014 Valid concerns, but Leica has a paid express service in Wetzlar and still turnaround times seem to be more consistently good there. As for the supply system, I am sure that the sourcing of parts must be a logistical nightmare. It is not in a factory's interest to have production stop for lack of a part, nor for a repair service to have customers complaining and technicians playing Skat for the same reason. I am sure the words unavoidable and frustrating apply in those situations, . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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