No focus peaking???

[AlanG]

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One of my past comments got lost in personal battles earlier

 

Once I went out to shoot beautiful landscape with my friend using 5DIII (I was using M9). His camera has two memory slots and one was assigned for raw and the other for small size jpeg review. During the shoot the main slot got full. My friend assumed that the raw pics will be written to the second slot and kept shooting. After we came back to the car, he realized that only the small size jpeg review pics were written. It was quite disappointing.

 

 

I will try to explain to you and others what is going on here. Your friend had several choices of how to set up the two cards. It could have duplicated the files, set to work to one card and then automatically to the other when full, one card could be selected and then the other manually, or stored raws to one card and jpegs to another as he selected.

 

So he specifically changed the default setting from "Standard" to store only raws on one card and only jpegs on the other. Yet he did not seem to understand the ramifications of setting it this way.

 

The way he was shooting, the camera stops and indicates which card is full and needs to be replaced. You can't continue to shoot when either card is full. So he must have removed the full card at this point.

 

If he removes the card and does not replace it with another, the LCD indicates "No card1 in camera, Cannot record separately." And the top LCD clearly shows that card2 is set for jpegs only and card1 will not be indicated anymore. So at this point, why would anyone assume that raws would be written to card2? If he was unsure of how his camera would function, he just had to look at it to figure out what was happening and then change the quality setting for that card. In his case, he ignored everything the camera was telling him.

 

This is no different than if you just put a single card into any camera and selected small jpegs. Everyone has shot without film in the camera or with a lens cap on. But in this case the camera even gives a warning.

 

Yes for some people, options like multiple card slots and many other things may be too much for them. Of course if you only put one card in you don't have to bother to learn this anyway. But presumably your friend is a fairly advanced user and wanted raws and jpegs on separate cards for some reason. The camera was doing what he instructed it to do and would have no reason on its own to change the quality setting. (Note - I am not commenting on the T.)

[jmahto]

... So he must have removed the full card at this point.

 

If he removes the card and does not replace it with another, the LCD indicates "No card1 in camera, Cannot record separately." And the top LCD clearly shows that card2 is set for jpegs only and card1 will not be indicated anymore. So at this point, why would anyone assume that raws would be written to card2? If he was unsure of how his camera would function, he just had to look at it to figure out what was happening and then change the quality setting for that card. In his case, he ignored everything the camera was telling him.

 

This is no different than if you just put a single card into any camera and selected small jpegs. Everyone has shot without film in the camera or with a lens cap on. But in this case the camera even gives a warning.

 

To my knowledge, he didn't remove the full card. He did get the warning for full card but ignored that and camera allowed him to do so. Of course, I don't know how 5D III works and I could be wrong since I was not operating the camera.

 

...

Yes for some people, options like multiple card slots and many other things may be too much for them. Of course if you only put one card in you don't have to bother to learn this anyway. But presumably your friend is a fairly advanced user and wanted raws and jpegs on separate cards for some reason. The camera was doing what he instructed it to do and would have no reason on its own to change the quality setting. (Note - I am not commenting on the T.)

 

This is exactly my point. Some people just don't need *some* features (multiple slot in this case) but can't simply ignore it all the time. The statement "don't use the feature, if you don't need to" doesn't apply everywhere.

 

edit2

 

Your suggestion to not use the second slot and not fiddle with the standard configuration doesn't help much since users will be tempted to use the feature and may not understand the full implication.

[AlanG]

I just tested it and you can't shoot when one card is full.

 

If you only use one card, you avoid the issue completely and don't need to learn anything. What is so complicated about that? There are plenty of cameras that only have a single card slot to choose from. Presumably your friend liked the ides of two slots for some reason and is using a pro level camera. Yes pro cameras are more complicated because they are targeted to people who demand the features and the customization ability. Pros and advanced users are willing to put in the effort to learn how to get the most out of them. Thus he could have learned a little about the card slots first. I bet he knows now. Why did he buy this camera?

 

Many features can bite you in the ass if you don't know what you are doing. E.g. how many people get blurry photos just from not understanding what a slow shutter speed means? I bet some people will buy high MP cameras and just use it on low res because they don't understand it. There is a reason to learn basic camera operation and photographic principles in general... or just use everything on a default auto setting and hope for the best. But aren't all users here much more advanced than this?

 

At least your friend didn't shoot with the lens cap on. And every rangefinder shooter in history has probably done that. I remember shooting away with a 6x6 Rollei in front of my clients when my assistant yelled out, "Alan, do you think you might want to put a roll of film in your camera." Canon gave your friend two warnings and stopped shooting until he took action to override.

[jmahto]

I just tested it and you can't shoot when one card is full.

 

If you only use one card, you avoid the issue completely and don't need to learn anything. So what is so complicated about that?

 

Well, in that case may be he assumed that the camera is intelligent enough to start writing raw to the other card. At the end it boils down to the fact that a complex device needs more attention on configuration rather than focusing on the essential task of picture taking, which is composition (aesthetics) and exposure (technical).

[jmahto]

On one occasion (shooting Canon 40D) I have messed up my entire day's shoot (shooting eagles) by accidentally using ISO 1600 (which is rubbish on 40D). I blame that to the information overload in the view finder where I mistook ISO for shutter speed and didn't notice my mistake. In addition, the image preview on 40D doesn't show me ISO right away as in my M9.

 

At the end, give me something simple *or* a simple way to ignore what I don't need.

 

When a user makes a mistake, it could very much be UI's fault as well. Much has been worked on an effective user interface. This is not new.

[jonoslack]

Well, in that case may be he assumed that the camera is intelligent enough to start writing raw to the other card. At the end it boils down to the fact that a complex device needs more attention on configuration rather than focusing on the essential task of picture taking, which is composition (aesthetics) and exposure (technical).

 

Which was exactly jmahto's point in the first place!

 

It illustrates one of the virtues of simplicity.

[AlanG]

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Yes the more features the more you have to know in order to get the most out of them. You should not buy a camera that is too complex for your ability unless your goal is to learn more.

 

Pros have made every mistake possible often multiple times. They eventually learn to make very few.

[jmahto]

.....You should not buy a camera that is too complex for your ability unless your goal is to learn more......

 

Well.... Simpler UI paradigm means something. It has nothing to do with someone's ability.

 

Its a huge thing in critical interfaces like flight control. Of course a bad camera interface doesn't kill anyone but a better interface is a better interface.. duh...

 

Human Factors and Ergonomics Society : Better User Interface Design Could Mitigate “Automation Addiction” and Other Flying Errors, HF/E Experts Suggest

 

Sorry for deviating from focus peaking but I wanted to make an obvious point.

[wildlightphoto]

You should not buy a camera that is too complex for your ability unless your goal is to learn more.

 

Sometimes people buy a pro-spec camera because it has a usable viewfinder or sturdy construction. The unwanted extra features and poorly-designed UI are the unfortunate baggage that comes along with most pro-spec cameras. The Leica T (veering back toward the subject) shows promise of a better UI.

[lct]

As for focus peaking, I started using them on NEX6 but slowly realized how inaccurate it was (I use low setting) and have to use magnification for long lenses.

Same on the Fuji X-E2 where magnification allows to focus long lenses but also wide ones at small apertures w/o focus peaking. Works fine with a CV 21/4 at f/8 or even f/11 for instance. I don't know how it works with such a wide DoF but if the T is in the same league there is no reason to worry about lack of focus peaking IMHO.

[AlanG]

No user interface is going to know you want raw if you set it to jpeg.

 

Likewise it assumes you'll know that you lose quality at high ISO. There is nothing that compensates for lack of attention to detail.

[wildlightphoto]

No user interface is going to know you want raw if you set it to jpeg.

 

Likewise it assumes you'll know that you lose quality at high ISO. There is nothing that compensates for lack of attention to detail.

 

I'd rather pay attention to the light and the subject.

 

All else being equal, would you rather use a camera with a good UI or a poor UI?

[jmahto]

No user interface is going to know you want raw if you set it to jpeg.

 

Likewise it assumes you'll know that you lose quality at high ISO. There is nothing that compensates for lack of attention to detail.

 

I am not going to read all those freaking numbers in the view finder while eagle is flying away. I will consider myself lucky if I can keep the flying eagle in the frame!!

 

We are going in circles about why simply more buttons/features is not a better UI design.

 

I give up.

[pop]

There is nothing that compensates for lack of attention to detail.

 

Yes, there is. Reducing the amount of "detail" clamoring for your attention.

[jmahto]

This is my dream camera... (sorry, I copied from someplace long time ago and can't give proper attribution).

 

Give me more features... MORE

 

LOL

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[AlanG]

I am not going to read all those freaking numbers in the view finder while eagle is flying away. I will consider myself lucky if I can keep the flying eagle in the frame!!

 

We are going in circles about why simply more buttons/features is not a better UI design.

 

I give up.

 

You were the one who said you changed the ISO by mistake when you couldn't see it clearly in the VF. I always know my ISO, almost always shoot with manual exposure and rarely have to use the lcd to change settings. On some cameras the view through the viewfinder can be set to show no information if you like. So I just don't see the issue.

 

Of course we all choose the interfaces we prefer. So?

[pop]

So I just don't see the issue.

 

That's a fair summary of this thread so far and I don't mean to single out one particular member. It's hard to see why others don't like the solutions one is particularly comfortable with.

[wildlightphoto]

I am not going to read all those freaking numbers in the view finder while eagle is flying away. I will consider myself lucky if I can keep the flying eagle in the frame!!

 

Likewise when a warbler is jinking around in a bush I'd rather be watching for that single moment when light, posture, visibility, background and focus intersect. I don't want the distraction of checking to make sure some unwanted exposure, focus, meter pattern, drive, playback, bracketing, flash or storage mode wasn't accidentally activated. A good user interface makes these features available when needed, and difficult to activate accidentally.

[AlanG]

Likewise when a warbler is jinking around in a bush I'd rather be watching for that single moment when light, posture, visibility, background and focus intersect. I don't want the distraction of checking to make sure some unwanted exposure, focus, meter pattern, drive, playback, bracketing, flash or storage mode wasn't accidentally activated. A good user interface makes these features available when needed, and difficult to activate accidentally.

 

Why would anyone disagree with this?

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Hallo,

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[wildlightphoto]

Why would anyone disagree with this?

 

Absent a good user interface I'd rather not have the unused features at all. It's one of the biggest reasons I switched from Nikon to Leica R. Nikon's feature creep did not come with a well-designed user interface and I was willing - and still am willing - to pay more for fewer features along with a better user interface.