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StephenPatterson

No focus peaking???

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BTW in response to those who said you have to use a camera to know it, I certainly never used most of the cameras that I sold when I worked in a camera shop.

 

Funny that Alan - when I go to photo stores it's always perfectly clear that the staff really don't know much about the cameras. (even if they're good photographers, intelligent people and nice to talk to).

 

I think you've just explained to me why.

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Jono, thanks for the answer.

 

However, (In a lighthearted manner … because in the scheme of things, this is all just a tempest in a teapot that has raged on for 8+ pages)

 

Will the current "evangelizing" also do a flip-flop in the next few years? Months? Days? : -)

 

Honestly, this all feels like a mighty collective voice in defense of mediocrity, an attribute I personally do not subscribe to Leica, nor many of its' users.

 

While you and I have our disagreements regarding the M240, it is about differing image tastes and preferences, not mediocrity.

 

There is nothing mediocre about the M Monochrome, M240 or Leica S2/S.

 

Well Marc - I see where you're coming from, and it's for sure that this camera is not going to replace my M or Monochrom.

 

. . . . but - I've been shooting with the thing for 6 months now, together with most of the obvious competition (Sony A7®, Fuji X-T1, OMD E-M1). The sensor is pretty much identical to the one in the Pentax K5 IIs - not state of the art, but very good.

 

It's certainly mediocre in terms of features, but I've come to really like using it - for the last month there's no particular reason to pick it up (over the M or the E-M1 or the A7 - until that went yesterday) . . but I have picked it up. The results are good, the lenses are good, and it's a pleasure to use . . . I don't think that really adds up to mediocrity?

 

To me it seems like a bit of a work in progress - the touch screen means that Leica really can make significant changes in the firmware, but it's the first body in a new range, with a well thought out and solid new lens mount.

 

It feels like it has a future to it. If it sells (and it's certainly looking like it will), then Leica will feel more confident spending more money on R&D on it's successor.

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Funny that Alan - when I go to photo stores it's always perfectly clear that the staff really don't know much about the cameras. (even if they're good photographers, intelligent people and nice to talk to).

 

I think you've just explained to me why.

 

I knew virtually everything about most of the cameras but you can't go out and shoot with 100 different models. At that time, I had a near photographic memory (no pun intended) for the camera features, lenses, accessories and pricing.

 

So instead of this continuous personal sniping...

 

Do you feel that the handling and esthetics of the T are so great that it justifies its premium price vs. others in its class? Maybe it is more of a debate between gestalt and structuralism than it is about photography gear and performance.

 

What kind of photographers would you recommend it to?.

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Don't know if anyone has posted
. Seems apropos here given that the reviewer likes the camera despite its lack of features and various other articulated deficiencies.

 

Alan must not have watched this. The reviewer knows cameras, cites many T deficiencies and lack of features, yet likes the camera. Go figure…people are strange that way.

 

Being able to memorize stats and features about a camera is not the same as trying it and deciding if it's a personal fit. Some will like the T; some will not. Big deal.

 

Jeff

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Alan must not have watched this. The reviewer knows cameras, cites many T deficiencies and lack of features, yet likes the camera. Go figure…people are strange that way.

 

Being able to memorize stats and features about a camera is not the same as trying it and deciding if it's a personal fit. Some will like the T; some will not. Big deal.

 

Jeff

 

I agree.

 

I loved the review video. It absolutely hits my thoughts on the camera. On paper it clearly "looses" in comparison to an A7 etc., but as soon as I had it in my hands and did some shots with it I really liked the T.

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I knew virtually everything about most of the cameras but you can't go out and shoot with 100 different models. At that time, I had a near photographic memory (no pun intended) for the camera features, lenses, accessories and pricing.

 

So instead of this continuous personal sniping...

 

Do you feel that the handling and esthetics of the T are so great that it justifies its premium price vs. others in its class? Maybe it is more of a debate between gestalt and structuralism than it is about photography gear and performance.

 

What kind of photographers would you recommend it to?.

 

Hi Alan

I fear I still do have a pretty clear idea of the relative feature set of a lot of different cameras. Where we differ is to think of the feature set as paramount.

 

I don't feel that a price performance equation is terribly useful, because it ignores imponderables and unmeasurables (which all cameras have). I understand why it's expensive, and I don't think it's a rip-off. (And I do think there's room for improvement, as there is with any camera)

 

I'd recommend it to anyone who liked Leica, and who wanted something nicely made and reasonably sized which takes good quality images and was interesting and different to use.

 

I guess it's not for the cash strapped, but nor are nice watches and smart cars, and there are plenty of those about!

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Alan must not have watched this. The reviewer knows cameras, cites many T deficiencies and lack of features, yet likes the camera. Go figure…people are strange that way.

 

Being able to memorize stats and features about a camera is not the same as trying it and deciding if it's a personal fit. Some will like the T; some will not. Big deal.

 

Jeff

 

I assure you Jeff that I can pick up virtually any camera ever made, adjust to it and take some nice photos with it. They all have the basic concept of where you point it and when you press the shutter release. The Leica T is very very similar to countless cameras I have used. Is the image in the EVF and LCD upside down and reversed by any chance? Maybe they should do that in a monochrome version and call it the Ansel Adams special edition. I'd be very comfortable with that.

 

I wasn't going to comment on that video out of fear you would think I was criticizing the camera again.

 

Did the reviewer say he was going to buy one?

 

Am I mistaken in hearing numerous disclaimers and criticisms in it?

 

Do you think that review will sell many Ts to people who are not Leica enthusiasts?

 

I probably would like it too if you want to give me one to play with. Does that overcome everything he said and others will buy it because this guy said he liked it in the end? How many cameras does he like?

 

 

So why is so much focus aimed at me? If you don't feel I am entitled to an opinion based on examining the specs and price, watching and reading reviews, and processing it all through my 50 years of camera experience, then ignore what I write.. Do you think I will forget it all by just trying it and falling in love with it?

 

It seems to me that some people are lashing out at me over some kind of personal feelings that I am slighting their favorite brand. Sorry if that is how you roll.

 

Why not leave me entirely out of your posts and simply present why you think this camera is so great... if you truly feel that way about it?

Edited by AlanG

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What am I looking for? A smaller simpler complement to my M cameras which takes my M lenses.

 

We are in accord.

 

That said, I don't think there's anything intrinsically negative in AlanG's analysis or questioning...

Edited by Carbon111

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So why is so much focus aimed at me? If you don't feel I am entitled to an opinion based on examining the specs and price, watching and reading reviews, and processing it all through my 50 years of camera experience, then ignore what I write..

 

It seems to me that some people are lashing out at me over some kind of personal feelings that I am slighting their favorite brand. Sorry if that is how you roll.

 

Why not leave me entirely out of your posts and simply present why you think this camera is so great... if you truly feel that way about it?

 

The focus is aimed at you, Alan, because you have dominated the T sub forum with your Denial Of Service attack. I know your opinions. I knew them days ago. But you have not used the T and have nothing practical to contribute. I, like anyone else, can read the spec sheets. Each time I look at the LUF sub forum list and see that AlanG is the latest poster, my heart sinks, because I know I'm going to have to wade through your lengthy and numerous posts to find the few nuggets of interest posted by others about the T (which I may not buy, but I'm certainly interested in hearing how it performs).

 

OK, I've returned to the T sub forum to post this. But I'm going away again until the smokescreen clears.

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"Denial Of Service attack."

 

? am I being sued now? In the past many posts I have said very little specifically about this camera other than asking what people want from it and to share their enthusiasm. Yet I still get the heat.

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I assure you Jeff that I can pick up virtually any camera ever made, adjust to it and take some nice photos with it. They all have the basic concept of where you point it and when you press the shutter release. The Leica T is very very similar to countless cameras I have used. Is the image in the EVF and LCD upside down and reversed by any chance? Maybe they should do that in a monochrome version and call it the Ansel Adams special edition. I'd be very comfortable with that.

 

I wasn't going to comment on that video out of fear you would think I was criticizing the camera again.

 

Did the reviewer say he was going to buy one?

 

Am I mistaken in hearing numerous disclaimers and criticisms in it?

 

Do you think that review will sell many Ts to people who are not Leica enthusiasts?

 

I probably would like it too if you want to give me one to play with. Does that overcome everything he said and others will buy it because this guy said he liked it in the end? How many cameras does he like?

 

 

So why is so much focus aimed at me? If you don't feel I am entitled to an opinion based on examining the specs and price, watching and reading reviews, and processing it all through my 50 years of camera experience, then ignore what I write..

 

It seems to me that some people are lashing out at me over some kind of personal feelings that I am slighting their favorite brand. Sorry if that is how you roll.

 

Why not leave me entirely out of your posts and simply present why you think this camera is so great... if you truly feel that way about it?

 

 

If you have to ask why..........Google is your friend.

 

in·ces·sant

inˈsesənt/

adjective

(of something regarded as unpleasant) continuing without pause or interruption.

"the incessant beat of the music"

synonyms: ceaseless, unceasing, constant, continual, unabating, interminable, endless, unending, never-ending, everlasting, eternal, perpetual, continuous, nonstop, around/round-the-clock, uninterrupted, unbroken, unremitting, persistent, relentless, unrelenting, unrelieved, sustained More

antonyms: intermittent, occasional

Origin

late Middle English: via Old French from late Latin incessant-, from in- ‘not’ + Latin cessant- ‘ceasing’ (from the verb cessare ).

Translate incessant to

Use over time for: incessant

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This thread espouses the virtue of minimalism. No?

 

Looking back to Leica's fundamental contribution to photography confirms the T which recapitulates the era, affirms the fundamental virtues in modern terms.

 

If you expect more then perhaps you should recognize your place in history and aesthetics. Where are you? Are you one who is tightly coupled to technology so that your images are critiqued in technological, mechanical terms or do you make engaging images regardless?

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Etcha-sketch.

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I have not even seen the "T," let alone used one, which by the standards here qualifies me absolutely to alternatively slag it or worship it, depending on how I feel.

 

I have tried to use focus peaking on the M 240, because, like the mountain, "It is there." Frankly, I find it a distracting nuisance, a drainer of batteries, and I have no trouble focusing with a rangefinder. My second camera, therefore, is more likely, within the price bracket, to be an E**y second hand M 8.2, which will also make my lens kit a bit more versatile. As would the "T," of course.

 

So, no focus peaking is something I could not give a damn about, nor do the rest of the features about which Alan eulogizes. I once had a Canon A1, with aperture and shutter priority automation, and a raft of, for the time, remarkable features. I bought it to use on a trans Pacific yacht delivery, and it died soon after leaving port, leaving me with "only" an M3, a camera with actually quite a few features, but none of them requiring electricity.

 

I notice Alan also drives a feature packed Jeep Cherokee. I once had one of these inflicted on me by a car rental company for a week in Northern Canada. Frankly, it is a piece of agricultural grade crap. And when I see features lauded above build quality, my first level of importance since I am commonly miles from nowhere, it makes me think of the other cameras he likes so well as being cut from the same poorly woven cloth.

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I notice Alan also drives a feature packed Jeep Cherokee..

 

Let's make this thread about me and my cars. You have not even gotten the car correct. The snobbery here is off the charts.

 

I forgot that owning a Leica T will indicate great taste in all things. That is the undercurrent of those emotional ads isn't it? I have no need to project this as I am comfortable being a tasteless slob.

 

If Leica some day comes out with a model that has an integrated EVF, IBIS, magnified focus anywhere in the frame, and a remote release cord, will you criticize it for incorporating four "of the features about which Alan eulogizes."

 

Features, "I don't need no stinking features." That's how logical and compelling some of this sounds to me. Is that your best shot?

 

What is funny to me is this is a total repeat of posts from a few years ago when I was a proponent of Leica adding live view and an EVF. I took a lot of heat from that one too, but Leica came around and brought its supporters with it. If the T had every single feature I listed, I think it would have been accepted also. The T has video which everyone once despised too.

 

I guess the next model M will not have focus peaking because the M users hate it so much.

Edited by AlanG

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Let's make this thread about me and my cars. You have not even gotten the car correct.

 

I forgot that owning a Leica T will indicate great taste in all things. Explain that please. If Leica some day comes out with a model that has an integrated EVF, IBIS and a remote release cord, will you criticize it for incorporating three "of the features about which Alan eulogizes."

 

What is funny to me is this is a total repeat of posts from a few years ago when I was a proponent of Leica adding live view and an EVF. I took a lot of heat from that one too, but Leica came around and brought its supporters with it.

 

I have to wonder why you're so obsessed with others' opinions of this camera.

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Which brings us again to the point that Alan is a "troll" (but a very diligent one) and adds nothing useful to the discussion.

 

Thankfully he finally admits it with the latest post and shows how he truly thinks about the people posting here... ;-)

 

Yes indeed, it seems to me that:

 

just can't help myself, yet many here do not seem to see how they fall into this pattern. I am a very cruel and unusual person... I know that already. Why do you always take the bait and react? I couldn't care less about the T.

 

Thanks for so much entertainment over the years.

 

Sounds very much like a welcome farewell.

 

Toddle Pip Alan. Thanks for making your motives clear!

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Regarding the camera: I applaud any company that is willing to skip the unique selling points race to the bottom. Leica is trying a new interpretation of what a thoroughly modern camera should be like. Nobody gets it perfect on their first try.

 

Regarding everything else in the thread:

 

I like potatoes. I do not like sushi. I enjoy talking about potatoes with other people who like potatoes. I would be happy to teach people how to cook potatoes, and if they're nearby to even cook a potato for them. On the other hand, I do not begrudge people who like sushi for liking sushi. I do not incessantly ask people who like sushi to justify to me, to my satisfaction, their decision to continue eating sushi. I'm fine with people who like eating sushi spending time talking about sushi with other people who like sushi. I may even ask them some questions along the lines of, "may I try a sushi?" But then I find that I still don't understand how anyone could like eating sushi, though now I appreciate how much craft goes into making good sushi. So, I thank them, then I continue to spend most of my time talking about potatoes--or, better yet, finding new ways to enjoy potatoes.

 

Mmm, potatoes.

 

Cheers,

Jon

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Okay, so I think we've all established that the T camera doesn't have focus peaking, and that it wasn't an oversight by Leica. They discussed it, considered it and dropped it (if it was ever "in"). I think it is fair to say that they actually think conceptually that it is a good idea (It's in the M(240) after all). So, if a better manifestation appears, we might see it in a future version of the T camera (or even an S, if it also moves to CMOSIS). If it works better than the NEX-5n or the A7r (the two versions I've used and not been impressed with), I'll be happy.

 

As for other features:

 

If Leica some day comes out with a model that has an integrated EVF, IBIS, magnified focus anywhere in the frame, and a remote release cord, will you criticize it for incorporating four "of the features about which Alan eulogizes."

 

I'm actually not that fussed about a built in EVF. The Visoflex tilts, which is useful (the NEX-5n EVF also tilted and I liked that feature, where the A7r didn't). The nice thing about a removable EVF is that I can take it off and have a smaller camera if I want to.

 

Provided I can fire the shutter remotely or with the self-timer, I can live without a cable remote. I like the old-fashioned cable release and use it whenever I mount my M cameras on a tripod, but I don't really see this camera getting mounted on a tripod that often - it's not what the camera is about. I use my big tripod with my Ms and D800E, but I would only use a tabletop tripod with the T - for things like video or remote images, fired from my iPhone.

 

I would love IBIS and magnified focus anywhere in the frame (I see this as the biggest failing inherent in the M camera). Focus peaking was supposed to resolve this problem - but it simply isn't good enough, or at least as good as focusing through the old-fashioned coupled rangefinder.

 

If (when) these features are implemented, don't take this the wrong way Alan, I will be very happy but I won't give you a thought. You cannot really claim ownership or vindication of these simply because you've made so much noise about them here. Others have commented on these issues in the past. Similarly, if Leica makes a full frame version, I won't be so arrogant to think that anything I've said here will have made a jot of difference (it hasn't to date). What's so interesting about this camera is, as you've observed, the gestalt - it has a new interface, it is a new presentation, and it will hopefully work with M lenses better than any Sony has to date (the A7r was actually pretty good with the lenses I have, apart from the 28 Summicron) - being a smaller sensor in a Leica camera should mean that it will perform better than the Sonys with M lenses, and it has no AA filter (this makes it unique in this sensor?).

 

I thought your real problem was that the camera is feature poor, average quality and over-priced. Off you go, now's your chance to let fly - you know you want to and you'll feel better ...

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