Manoleica Posted September 11, 2014 Share #201 Posted September 11, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The whole thing is a Fiasco. Leica supposedly offer high end pieces of technology.. The GM cover up comes to mind........ After 7 iffy cameras & 1 in the hand I think I would like my money back...... Forthwith. And a Fully Tested camera Free Gratis.......(I smell lurking attorneys) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 Hi Manoleica, Take a look here Anyone figure out why the 240 freezes up?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted September 11, 2014 Share #202 Posted September 11, 2014 Well, I do not think many persons would proceed beyond camera three.... An investment in lenses would not stop me bailing out, as the current market is rather buoyant. Ironically because of the large number of happy M240 (and M9 and M8 ) users... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 11, 2014 Share #203 Posted September 11, 2014 Yes (the last time I had the lock-up problem). Then my educated guess is that the M problem is overheating. EVF, Live View, direct sun and high environment temperature will exacerbate the problem. But you can overheat the system even if the environment temperature is low. Just keep shooting at a fast pace. Most SoC have a max temperature sensor and they halt to protect themselves against hardware damage, hence the freeze. Other issues like firmware bugs may also cause the camera to freeze. Not all freezes are equal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted September 12, 2014 Share #204 Posted September 12, 2014 Then my educated guess is that the M problem is overheating. EVF, Live View, direct sun and high environment temperature will exacerbate the problem. But you can overheat the system even if the environment temperature is low. Just keep shooting at a fast pace. Most SoC have a max temperature sensor and they halt to protect themselves against hardware damage, hence the freeze. Other issues like firmware bugs may also cause the camera to freeze. Not all freezes are equal Agreed, b u t -> All Non working & frozen cameras are bricks" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #205 Posted September 12, 2014 Agreed, b u t -> All Non working & frozen cameras are bricks" Huge ice cubes, you mean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 12, 2014 Share #206 Posted September 12, 2014 I see a lot of sweeping statement here. I sense that a sensible approach to Leica, not this forum, would have, still may, produce an answer. OTOH it may not. One will never know unless it is actually done. Speculation (abundant here) is really a waste of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tundraline Posted September 12, 2014 Share #207 Posted September 12, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Then my educated guess is that the M problem is overheating. EVF, Live View, direct sun and high environment temperature will exacerbate the problem. But you can overheat the system even if the environment temperature is low. Just keep shooting at a fast pace. Most SoC have a max temperature sensor and they halt to protect themselves against hardware damage, hence the freeze. Other issues like firmware bugs may also cause the camera to freeze. Not all freezes are equal None of the problems I have had have occurred while using the EVF or live view. Lock-ups in my cameras have occurred in winter, fall, summer and spring, at all temperatures. They have occurred with new and old firmware, and in newer and older versions of the M240. Thus, I suspect the problem lies in the M240's firmware, and that Leica do not know which part of the code is causing it. Nevertheless, this is a real -- and not imaginary -- problem, and it is one that could be chased down and solved by a competent engineer. Frankly, and IMHO, a problem like this should not be occurring in the world's most expensive full frame camera body. The fact that it is still occurring one and 1/2 years after launch and long after the problem has been brought to Leica's attention by their customers is testament to poor quality control and programming skills. Leica is superb at designing lenses, and milling and forming glass, but I am not so sure about their electronics and software skills (which are critical in any digital camera) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #208 Posted September 12, 2014 None of the problems I have had have occurred while using the EVF or live view. Lock-ups in my cameras have occurred in winter, fall, summer and spring, at all temperatures. Like I said, CPU overheating is more dependent on computational load than external temperature. And using 7 years old hardware is a big part of that. But I totally agree, this issue after 1.5 years is a shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don daniel Posted September 12, 2014 Share #209 Posted September 12, 2014 My camera from time to time locks up at completely normal temperature NOT using liveview and NOT in continuous shooting mode, but with latest firmware. Please, Leica, take care of this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 12, 2014 Share #210 Posted September 12, 2014 None of the problems I have had have occurred while using the EVF or live view. Lock-ups in my cameras have occurred in winter, fall, summer and spring, at all temperatures. They have occurred with new and old firmware, and in newer and older versions of the M240. Thus, I suspect the problem lies in the M240's firmware, and that Leica do not know which part of the code is causing it. Nevertheless, this is a real -- and not imaginary -- problem, and it is one that could be chased down and solved by a competent engineer. Frankly, and IMHO, a problem like this should not be occurring in the world's most expensive full frame camera body. The fact that it is still occurring one and 1/2 years after launch and long after the problem has been brought to Leica's attention by their customers is testament to poor quality control and programming skills. Leica is superb at designing lenses, and milling and forming glass, but I am not so sure about their electronics and software skills (which are critical in any digital camera) If it were the firmware the problem should be consistent. I.e. happening on all cameras. Erl is right, Leica is the only agency that can solve this problem. That they can only do if the users experiencing the problem would communicate with them, too low a number of complaints about misbehaving cameras cannot establish a pattern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #211 Posted September 12, 2014 In movies, there is just "one bad guy". Once the hero beats him, then everything is fine. In the Leica M movie, I beieve there is more than one "bad guy" (issue). One has been fixed with the latest firmware upgrade. Now go find the others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Martin Posted September 12, 2014 Share #212 Posted September 12, 2014 My M240 has the latest firmware. Shooting in California last weekend at temps around 70 F, and not using an EVF, the camera froze up three different times. This is particularly annoying since: (a) shots were lost; ( each time the battery had to be removed to reset the camera (which entailed removing a quick release plate and the camera's bottom plate). Pretty disappointing for a $7,000 camera body, to say the least. Is Leica ever going to fix this problem, which I have had with BOTH of my M240 bodies? Don't worry plenty of people will try and defend this ridiculous situation for one of the most expensive cameras available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted September 12, 2014 Share #213 Posted September 12, 2014 If it were the firmware the problem should be consistent. I.e. happening on all cameras. Not necessarily, it also depends on their use pattern whether folks experience it or not, me thinks, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #214 Posted September 12, 2014 If it were the firmware the problem should be consistent. I.e. happening on all cameras. Nonsense. Users have very different usage patterns and environments. And by the way, Leica admitted this bug was fixed with the latest firmware (one of these bugs). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #215 Posted September 12, 2014 I clearly see Leica's future as a producer of great lenses for third party cameras. Only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 12, 2014 Share #216 Posted September 12, 2014 Exactly. And without data that pattern cannot be established. If it were the firmware the problem should be repeatable by all cameras used according to that pattern. If it is a hardware problem it is possible that a certain combination of component tolerances can produce the problem in some cameras and not in others with the same parameters of use. Like the heat bug was repeatable - and was fixed. I hope. I will be testing it for myself shortly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #217 Posted September 12, 2014 Come on, jaapv. Do you really think Leica "engineers" are not able to reproduce this issue ? It's not that hard. If a bug can be replicated in lab, it can be fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 12, 2014 Share #218 Posted September 12, 2014 If they could reproduce it they would have fixed it. To reproduce it they need more than isolated reports on a forum. Please set out the parameters to produce a lockup if it is not that hard, I would like to know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Black Posted September 12, 2014 Share #219 Posted September 12, 2014 EVF, Live View, direct sun and high environment temperature will exacerbate the problem. But you can overheat the system even if the environment temperature is low. Just keep shooting at a fast pace. Most SoC have a max temperature sensor and they halt to protect themselves against hardware damage, hence the freeze. And repeated/successive long exposures - like the 10 second variety. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #220 Posted September 12, 2014 If they could reproduce it they would have fixed it. To reproduce it they need more than isolated reports on a forum.Please set out the parameters to produce a lockup if it is not that hard, I would like to know. Isolated reports on a forum ? Lots of serious people here had this issue(s). Enable EVF Live View and keep the shutter pressed in continuous mode until the camera freezes. That is how you repicate the issue. May take hours. I expect Leica to have people who can wait hours. We waited 1.5 years. That said, if "engineers" don't know how to break into the code and troubleshoot (which I strongly believe is the case) then replicating the issue is no use. Do you think Canon/Nikon/Sony/etc don't have any issue ? They just don't release alpha version hardware and software. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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