jdlaing Posted September 16, 2014 Share #261 Posted September 16, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Could lock-ups be Leica's way of saying Slow Down! Yes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 Hi jdlaing, Take a look here Anyone figure out why the 240 freezes up?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted September 16, 2014 Share #262 Posted September 16, 2014 240user, thanks and welcome to the forum jaapv, count_sad_users++ Why should I count:confused: reports here in the forum may be useful to let off steam, complaints to Leica make more sense, if the number gets significant you have more chance of a resolution than by pontificating here. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 16, 2014 Share #263 Posted September 16, 2014 ...and I can afford anything Leica can make, but I buy in the state of mind I did over fifty years ago. This is probably the biggest issue. Leica assumes their customers have an infinite amout of money. But there are a lot of passionate people willing to spend a little fortune for a defective camera just to buy their Leica dream. To let these guys down is miserable and shameful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 16, 2014 Share #264 Posted September 16, 2014 Why should I count:confused: reports here in the forum may be useful to let off steam, complaints to Leica make more sense, if the number gets significant you have more chance of a resolution than by pontificating here. I understand that pontificating here is only ok for pro-Leica comments. Check all your comments from the beginning of this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2014 Share #265 Posted September 17, 2014 It may be inconvenient to your crusade, but no amount of internet sneering and blustering is going to change the fact that some cameras exhibit freezes and others don't..... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 17, 2014 Share #266 Posted September 17, 2014 All cameras do freeze more or less. Is the M240 any worse from this viewpoint? In no way as far as my sample is concerned but some of our colleagues here seem to have serious issues. Would be interesting to ask them if they sent their camera in after the last firmwere update and if the issues persisted afterwards. Canon freezing Fuji freezing Hasselblad freezing Nikon freezing 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2014 Share #267 Posted September 17, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is it basically welcome to the digital age? I have had no freezes on my 240 (except the thermal ones) but plenty of spinning balls on my Mac and blue screens on my PCs - a camera is after all a computer with a lens.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tundraline Posted September 17, 2014 Share #268 Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Thought I would pass on some interesting and potentially useful information regarding lock-ups on the M240. In an earlier post, I relayed comments from an Italian photographer who asserted that the M240's lock-up problems were solved in the new MP through the addition of a 2 GB buffer. My brother, an M240 owner who used to have persistent problems with his M240 locking up, recently purchased a high-speed data card (sorry, I do not know the technical details of the card he purchased, other than that it was a new model with advertised higher read and write speeds and was purchased about 2 months ago). Since then he has had no lock-ups. In combination with other reports of lock-ups occurring when many photos are taken sequentially, these stories may point in the direction of data overwhelming the M240's data bus when the data card cannot write data being received from the bus quickly enough. I am going to purchase a faster data card for one of my M240s and see if it makes any difference (I just found a SanDisk 60m MB/sec. card for $24 on Amazon; a 90 MB/sec. card was twice as much). If data card write speeds contribute to the problem, the problem may be essentially architectural in nature, and therefore not prone to an easy or straightforward firmware fix. On the other hand, the problem may also be susceptible to a quick fix (or at leas reduced incidence of lock-ups) by just using a higher speed data card. With my Fuji X-T1 I recently learned that it would only operate reliably and properly when using newer data cards (e.g., SanDisk Extreme 45 MB/sec. 32 GB cards). Older and slower data cards caused hiccups in my X-T1. It may also be possible that the M240's architecture and firmware are not configured to handle the higher write speeds enabled by newer cards, and that using such newer cards will make no or little difference in performance or reducing lock-ups. My brother's experience says otherwise, however. Edited September 17, 2014 by tundraline Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 17, 2014 Share #269 Posted September 17, 2014 All cameras do freeze more or less. Is the M240 any worse from this viewpoint? Current data from my Canon 5D2: - About 50000 shutter actuations (no Live View) - About 10000 LiveView actuations. In 6 years, the poor thing was used in the worst conditions: hours under the sun at +40C, or rain and snow, or freezing cold at -15C. It froze only once, years ago, with an old firmware revision. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 17, 2014 Share #270 Posted September 17, 2014 Never got the least problem with my 5D1 either so Leica = Canon for me. May i ask if you've sent your camera in after the last firmware update? Just curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted September 17, 2014 Share #271 Posted September 17, 2014 <snip>My brother, an M240 owner who used to have persistent problems with his M240 locking up, recently purchased a high-speed data card (sorry, I do not know the technical details of the card he purchased, other than that it was a new model with advertised higher read and write speeds and was purchased about 2 months ago). Since then he has had no lock-ups<snip> Maybe the problem can be reliably reproduced with a very slow card. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted September 17, 2014 Share #272 Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) If data card write speeds contribute to the problem, the problem may be essentially architectural in nature, and therefore not prone to an easy or straightforward firmware fix. errrr.... which is what I have been saying for years .... there is a processor (or processors) in the camera, memory in the camera, a processor in the card and memory in the card ...... none of these are manufactured to a perfectly identical standard ...... they are batch processed then tested .... and the very good/low error/fast sold as premium products and the absolute dogs relegated to cheap electrical goods ......with the rest re-badged as somewhere in between. the interaction between these variable interfaces could explain a lot of the variability between users ..... not all cameras and memory cards are created equal ..... despite what the label says ...... finding a single correctable firmware or hardware fault may be impossible....... ..... improving the absolute quality and performance of the individual components may .....which explains why changing cards sometimes cures the problem.... and why increasing the buffer in the MP may also help.... Edited September 17, 2014 by thighslapper Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 17, 2014 Share #273 Posted September 17, 2014 Never got the least problem with my 5D1 either so Leica = Canon for me. May i ask if you've sent your camera in after the last firmware update? Just curious. I did not send my M to Leica as - based on other user reports here - I am convinced they won't fix it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 17, 2014 Share #274 Posted September 17, 2014 finding a single correctable firmware or hardware fault may be impossible....... ..... improving the absolute quality and performance of the individual components may .....which explains why changing cards sometimes cures the problem.... If so, then Leica should just tell us which premium ultra-expensive elite card their engineers validate the camera with. I am fine with a "certified SD cards list" containing just one item. Which card does the Leica QA guy use ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2014 Share #275 Posted September 17, 2014 errrr.... which is what I have been saying for years .... there is a processor (or processors) in the camera, memory in the camera, a processor in the card and memory in the card ...... none of these are manufactured to a perfectly identical standard ...... they are batch processed then tested .... and the very good/low error/fast sold as premium products and the absolute dogs relegated to cheap electrical goods ......with the rest re-badged as somewhere in between. the interaction between these variable interfaces could explain a lot of the variability between users ..... not all cameras and memory cards are created equal ..... despite what the label says ...... finding a single correctable firmware or hardware fault may be impossible....... ..... improving the absolute quality and performance of the individual components may .....which explains why changing cards sometimes cures the problem.... and why increasing the buffer in the MP may also help.... This triggers another train of thought. There is clearly variability in the communication between the camera and the card. As was explained to me the communication speed between the card and the camera is not so much determined by the indicated card speed per se, but by the card controller and camera electronics in tandem. That may be where tolerances come into play. For instance I found that Lexar Pro 600x 16Gb gave good startup times on my camera. Others found differently with the same card. Could it be that the lockup problem can be linked to the startup time, if only as a symptom? Mine needs approx. 1.5 sec to start and has had no spontaneous lockup in over 2 years. Can others confirm or deny this hypothesis? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 17, 2014 Share #276 Posted September 17, 2014 Mine needs approx. 1.5 sec to start and has had no spontaneous lockup in over 2 years. Can others confirm or deny this hypothesis? Samsung SDHC 32GB Class 10: 2.5 seconds from power-on to first shot taken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2014 Share #277 Posted September 17, 2014 And I assume it locks up. Anybody else with a faststarting camera. A pity Lindolfi has not been around for a while. Probably the most reliable observer on the forum, he found 1.4 IIRC, and I would be interested in his lockup experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted September 17, 2014 Share #278 Posted September 17, 2014 I use a Lexar 16 gig 200x card. My M starts somewhere between 1 and 1.5 seconds. No lock ups so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 17, 2014 Share #279 Posted September 17, 2014 jaapv, how is "startup time" defined ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 17, 2014 Share #280 Posted September 17, 2014 I did not send my M to Leica as - based on other user reports here - I am convinced they won't fix it. So you keep complaining on the LUF rather than trying to fix your issue. Strong conviction indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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