jaapv Posted September 12, 2014 Share #241 Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Jaap It is not "if there is a problem". There IS a problem. One should be able to use this M240 with or without EVF, with or without LV, with or without C of S mode or any other way it was designed to be used, without lockups. Selective reading does not help having a discussion. I said: if there is a problem they can pinpoint. And yes, I and others are able to use the M240 with or without LV, EVF,C, S or any other way it was designed to without lockups. That is exactly the difficulty of finding the answer to or even the source of your problem. Edited September 12, 2014 by jaapv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Anyone figure out why the 240 freezes up?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted September 12, 2014 Share #242 Posted September 12, 2014 Excuses, excuses, excuses... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 12, 2014 Share #243 Posted September 12, 2014 Just read the beginning of the thread, Karl-Heinz.... My position is that basically the camera does not lock up, however, for some reason it does for some users. Obviously the cause must be found, as it should be reliable for everybody. Unfortunately, despite loud suggestions otherwise, there appears to be no easy answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tundraline Posted September 12, 2014 Share #244 Posted September 12, 2014 Funny -- just saw this new post in the Facebook M240 Leica group from Massimo Sebastio: The new Leica M-P This version, with among other things, a buffer of 2GB, covers the failure that sometimes occurs with the Leica M (Type 240) the total block of the machine. To unlock it, remove the battery, and of course the last picture taken is lost. Of course, I talk about it because I have seen and reviewed the problem. Hello everyone Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 12, 2014 Share #245 Posted September 12, 2014 Well, if the problem is the buffer , it cannot be resolved on the M240, I fear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 12, 2014 Share #246 Posted September 12, 2014 Well, if the problem is the buffer , it cannot be resolved on the M240, I fear. I would be more optimistic. It is likely that new RAM can be soldered in place of the original. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #247 Posted September 12, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just shot 400 pics this way, 200 with LV+EVF (100 basic jpegs and 100 raw + fine jpegs) and 200 with LV alone (ditto 100+100). Outdoor temperature 20°C (68°F). Nothing happened as expected from my apparently freeze-free camera. How long did it take for yours to freeze if i may ask? Last time it happened it was about 70 shots. I was shooting a multiple file ultra high resolution panorama (from different angles) in Live View mode. Camera was not in continuous mode but I was shooting the sequence at a fast pace (the camera buffer was definitely saturated as I had to wait seconds for the camera to take the next picture). Outside temperature (estimate) between 30 and 35 °C with direct sun on camera. Latest firmware. After the freeze, I don't remember whether power-cycling the camera was enough or had to remove the battery. After the "reboot", the camera was working as if nothing had happened. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #248 Posted September 12, 2014 well....... to make a medical analogy, we have Leica Lock-Up Syndrome...... which is basically a cluster of symptoms with no identifiable underlying medical disease. Causes are often multifactorial with lifestyle (=usage) and genetic (=hardware) and psychological (=firmware) factors. Treatment is often symptomatic to mitigate the syndrome.... and until research reveals an underlying cause there is not a lot more that can be done. I am afraid the latest firmware was a placebo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted September 12, 2014 Share #249 Posted September 12, 2014 Talking about selective reading: Well, if the problem is the buffer , it cannot be resolved on the M240, I fear. Nobody has claimed that increasing the buffer has "resolved" the problem. The claim was that it "covers the failure that sometimes occurs". I read that as "the failure will occur much less often but it is not solved". I don't believe this is related to overheating -- too many reports of this happening in conditions where heat should not be an issue. My bet is that it is a concurrency issue (e.g. race condition) that is related to the way some users (yours truly included) use the camera and might also be related to the card being used (i.e. write speed). There are a lot of things going on at the same time: pictures in the buffer are getting written to SD card, new pictures written into the buffer, metering, etc. These kinds of problems are extremely hard to reproduce -- which shouldn't be mistaken as an excuse for ignoring the issue until now. That they can only do if the users experiencing the problem would communicate with them, too low a number of complaints about misbehaving cameras cannot establish a pattern. The last time I tried that (sending a bug report to Leica via email) I have not gotten a response. For me posting on this forum is the only way I know of to get Leica's attention. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #250 Posted September 12, 2014 I don't believe this is related to overheating -- too many reports of this happening in conditions where heat should not be an issue. Microprocessors do burn information. Literally. Environment temperature matters, but if heat cannot be dissipated faster than it accumulates, then it just takes longer for the problem to happen (i.e. more shots). That said, it is unlikely that heat is the only problem here. Software bugs are crawling inside the M, and they complicate the scenario. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #251 Posted September 12, 2014 The answer is....they are working on the new Mxxx and hoping that will not have the same issues..... If so, I assume Leica will exchange my M with the M++ for free. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlinman Posted September 12, 2014 Share #252 Posted September 12, 2014 This ons is starting to give me a statistical headache. There are clearly a number of affected cameras out there divided in the EVF related group and general lockup group And a few that experience both. Yet there are tens of thousands of these cameras in use that seem not to lock up routinely. With some users having the same problem over and over on replacement cameras I fail to find an explanation. I mean the odds against getting eight locking up cameras in a row are staggering to the point where it must be apparent in all cameras. Yet where are the complainants? I' m one of the EVF-Group. I have the problem with one M240 with the old FW. My new M240 ( first one was stolen) has the same problem - niw with the new FW. Freezing every time with EVF, which I use often. Hope to find a solution. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 12, 2014 Share #253 Posted September 12, 2014 I' m one of the EVF-Group. I have the problem with one M240 with the old FW. My new M240 ( first one was stolen) has the same problem - niw with the new FW. Freezing every time with EVF, which I use often. Hope to find a solution. Two questions: 1) Are you on the latest firmware (2.0.1.5) ? 2) Can you please detail what "every time" means ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlinman Posted September 12, 2014 Share #254 Posted September 12, 2014 Two questions:1) Are you on the latest firmware (2.0.1.5) ? 2) Can you please detail what "every time" means ? 1) Yes 2) in approx 4 week intensive work with the new M240 I had approx 10 freezes. In every case I use the EVF. I found no special reason like heat. Sometomes it was related to the automatic zoom for the focussing, but this is a typical situation if the EVF is on. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante Posted September 16, 2014 Share #255 Posted September 16, 2014 Jaap, It doesn't matter what the statistic is of failure rate versus this site's registration versus posts; major camera manufacturers do not tolerate lockups. As a total, I have shot 10 times as much with a Nikon D700, X-Pro1, X100, and NEX-5 (and that's just the cameras I currently own) and never gotten a freeze period, let alone what I've seen with the M typ 240. And the repeatability? Demanding that intermittent crashing be repeatable is tantamount to denying that it exists. When I have experienced it, it most often has been with using the SF 58. You might be on the second or third flash shot of a group of people (and not shot on continuous) and the camera bricks. I don't see a temperature issue (since this is indoors) nor a buffer issue (since 3 pictures don't consume 1Gb of memory) nor an EVF issue. Even if I observe lockups in 66% of days I am indoor shooting, and I send the camera to Leica, basically all that is going to happen is that I will spend $50 shipping the camera in, wait a month, and then be told "no problem found" when it comes back. Then I'll just experience the failure again and again and again. If they can't figure out what this is, the minimum Leica can do is to issue, gratis, new base plates that don't have to be removed to reset the camera. Because what I love to do is to be in the middle of something and have to pull a half case, pull the bottom cover, pull and replace the battery, and then reassemble. Dante 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
240user Posted September 16, 2014 Share #256 Posted September 16, 2014 two things.... 1. Leicatime in Italy make an M base plate with a door for access to the battery and the card, something Leica refuse to do as they claim there is no call for it as people like the traditional and ..their words "quirky character " of the Leica. 2. My camera has frozen at least 6 times and Leica absolutely refuse to either believe me or take the camera for extensive testing. It has NEVER happened with ANY other digital camera I have ever used. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 16, 2014 Share #257 Posted September 16, 2014 240user, thanks and welcome to the forum jaapv, count_sad_users++ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LichMD Posted September 16, 2014 Share #258 Posted September 16, 2014 Not bandwagon jumping here, simply adding data to what hopefully leads to a resolution. I have a Leica M-P, about three weeks old, during a workshop with Thorsten Overgaard in NYC during which time I took approximately 750 frames, I experienced lock ups requiring turning the camera on and off. These happened using LV and the EVF, often when in zoom mode for critical focus. Since then I have shot another 1200 frames, and experienced lock ups about 4 times, always related to EVF or LV focus peaking. I'd put it at 8-10 occurrences since delivery on August 28th. I love the M-P, and hope this is a firmware fixable issue as I would be loathe to be without it, but my 2Gb buffer doesn't seem to have addressed the issue Cheers J 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 16, 2014 Share #259 Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I read of these issues and find a response in the dark part of my dim mind saying, "So what? The issues will be resolved in Leica's next camera." Then the rational mind kicks in with, "How freaking stupid is that? Bin the camera and buy again." It reads as a rich gambler's disease. ...and I can afford anything Leica can make, but I buy in the state of mind I did over fifty years ago. Edited September 16, 2014 by pico Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 16, 2014 Share #260 Posted September 16, 2014 Could lock-ups be Leica's way of saying Slow Down! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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