berbor Posted July 9, 2014 Share #101 Posted July 9, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) YESS ! Firmware downgraded sucessfully on my M9. No more reclocking issues! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 9, 2014 Posted July 9, 2014 Hi berbor, Take a look here Frustrated... Where is the M9 firmware fix?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
erl Posted July 10, 2014 Share #102 Posted July 10, 2014 Just trying to remember; I have a sneaking memory that there was 'some claim' that the current FW included a marginal colour improvement, mainly to do with W/A lenses and fringing. Does anyone remember that? Or am I imagining it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbor Posted July 10, 2014 Share #103 Posted July 10, 2014 I also rember that. But I am willing to sacrifice that against the ability to press the shutter and get the picture in the decisive moment. IQ was fine with 1.176. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john neal Posted July 10, 2014 Share #104 Posted July 10, 2014 Sadly, my M9-P just will not accept any earlier firmware version, all I get is the same message - this firmware is not compatible with this camera <grrr> Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 10, 2014 Share #105 Posted July 10, 2014 I could be remembering wrong, but there has been something in the past where a user had asked about firmware version compatibility of M9 and M9-P cameras (maybe 2 years ago, when the M9 FW topics were hot). It could also be though that I confuse this with the M9-Ti … Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted July 10, 2014 Share #106 Posted July 10, 2014 1.196 on both M9P & M-E, no problems at all Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john neal Posted July 10, 2014 Share #107 Posted July 10, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I could be remembering wrong, but there has been something in the past where a user had asked about firmware version compatibility of M9 and M9-P cameras (maybe 2 years ago, when the M9 FW topics were hot). It could be that you are right - these are now old models I will try again and see..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 10, 2014 Share #108 Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) We should remember that the last firmware update was released to resolve a serious lock-up problem. Do you guys really want to introduce that issue again? As for the discrete --series stuff. I find the combination of Series and Discrete not a rational one imo. Discrete has no function when you are shooting bursts. If I had been Leica I would simply have disabled that combination. Edited July 10, 2014 by jaapv 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 10, 2014 Share #109 Posted July 10, 2014 We should remember that the last firmware update was released to resolve a serious lock-up problem. Do you guys really want to introduce that issue again?As for the discrete --series stuff. I find the combination of Series and Discrete not a rational one imo. Discrete has no function when you are shooting bursts. If I had been Leica I would simply have disabled that combination. Jaap, this would have been a good solution, better yet, allowing the user to program a function on each of the drive dial's positions. For me this would be: "single speed discreet mode", "single speed discreet mode" and "single speed discreet mode". Unfortunately though users have experienced countless issues also in single drive when using discreet mode, myself included. These issues were more pronounced in some FW versions than in others, while certain firmware versions did have other benefits over others. It all came down to a lot of experimenting with SD card brands and versions, FW versions and general use of the camera. My most stable circumstances for my M9 has been: FW 1.162 SanDisk Extreme Pro 30MB/s 8GB cards Discreet Mode enabled Later FW versions introduced seriously slow card write speeds and did not improved upon still sometimes lacking stability of shutter re-cocking. Earlier FW versions would sometimes cause SD card faults ("No SD CARD" message or even corrupted cards, rendering them unreadable in other devices as well) and often serious shutter re-cocking issues as well as occasional entirely frozen cameras. I bought my M9 new, used it almost daily for the better part of two years and suffered with great patience and a lot of testing through ownership. The application of older firmware versions is a sad state of the first gen Leica digital M cameras but it is of benefit for some users. I consider it a valid helping method of finding a configuration that makes an potential buggy digital camera workable. I am happy with my M9 since FW 1.162 and my findings of which SD cards work best for me. It is a dependable camera since then. I wish for future M cameras that Leica will progress to achieve reliability as other manufacturers do so users do not have to experiment and develop cures themselves. I love Leica M cameras for what they are even if they are buggy sometimes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted July 10, 2014 Share #110 Posted July 10, 2014 If the camera has previously been sent in for remapping of bad pixels… would a firmware downgrade erase such remapping? Or is the bad pixel data stored elsewhere in the camera's memory and therefore not affected? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 11, 2014 Share #111 Posted July 11, 2014 If the camera has previously been sent in for remapping of bad pixels… would a firmware downgrade erase such remapping? Or is the bad pixel data stored elsewhere in the camera's memory and therefore not affected? The data is stored elsewhere. Firmware flashing does not influence sensor mapping. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 11, 2014 Share #112 Posted July 11, 2014 Jaap, this would have been a good solution, better yet, allowing the user to program a function on each of the drive dial's positions. For me this would be: "single speed discreet mode", "single speed discreet mode" and "single speed discreet mode". Unfortunately though users have experienced countless issues also in single drive when using discreet mode, myself included. These issues were more pronounced in some FW versions than in others, while certain firmware versions did have other benefits over others. It all came down to a lot of experimenting with SD card brands and versions, FW versions and general use of the camera. My most stable circumstances for my M9 has been: FW 1.162 SanDisk Extreme Pro 30MB/s 8GB cards Discreet Mode enabled Later FW versions introduced seriously slow card write speeds and did not improved upon still sometimes lacking stability of shutter re-cocking. Earlier FW versions would sometimes cause SD card faults ("No SD CARD" message or even corrupted cards, rendering them unreadable in other devices as well) and often serious shutter re-cocking issues as well as occasional entirely frozen cameras. I bought my M9 new, used it almost daily for the better part of two years and suffered with great patience and a lot of testing through ownership. The application of older firmware versions is a sad state of the first gen Leica digital M cameras but it is of benefit for some users. I consider it a valid helping method of finding a configuration that makes an potential buggy digital camera workable. I am happy with my M9 since FW 1.162 and my findings of which SD cards work best for me. It is a dependable camera since then. I wish for future M cameras that Leica will progress to achieve reliability as other manufacturers do so users do not have to experiment and develop cures themselves. I love Leica M cameras for what they are even if they are buggy sometimes. The problem only reared it's head when Sandisk and some other companies made an alteration to the card digital spec. The complaints disappeared for the most part if not completely with the latest update which was extensively beta tested by members of this forum. This firmware is stable with SD cards but can lock up if you combine discrete with series mode ( as I said, why should you?) which was known before the software was released. So you have a choice: revert to a locking up firmware ( if your camera allows you to, some hardware configurations don't) or don't use discrete in C mode. I know what my choice is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 11, 2014 Share #113 Posted July 11, 2014 The complaints disappeared for the most part if not completely with the latest update which was extensively beta tested by members of this forum. This firmware is stable with SD cards but can lock up if you combine discrete with series mode ( as I said, why should you?) which was known before the software was released. So you have a choice: revert to a locking up firmware ( if your camera allows you to, some hardware configurations don't) or don't use discrete in C mode. I know what my choice is. See my post above. Issues were never limited only to using Discreet Mode in continuous drive (why would anybody do that?). Issues were: - corrupting SD cards (solved for me with 1.162) - constantly freezing camera (solved for me with 1.162) - shutter cocking delay with up to 30sec + waiting time until the camera was ready for another frame (solved for me with 1.162) Mostly solved since 1.162 but still occasional happening (as with later FW as tested). Issues with newer FW than 1.162 is that Leica implemented a different writing to card algorithm, providing more secure (but much slower) card writing to remedy the data corruption, freezes and card failures. I found with a distinct selection of SD cards and strict rules how to use them, FW 1.162 had given me not once any data corruption or SD card related issues while still providing fast write times. For this reason only, I stick with the older FW. You can repeat now endlessly how unreasonable this might be but this is what works best for me, having tested the alternatives. I advice against using FW 1.176 when using Discreet Mode, as FW 1.176 broke Discreet Mode functionality in certain circumstances (quick shutter re-cocking when taking consecutive shots was buggy). I do not remember if this was corrected in the current FW 1.196 but I do not intend to try it out as FW 1.162 works perfectly for me. Thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 11, 2014 Share #114 Posted July 11, 2014 Jaap I am inclined to agree with you but, (don't you love it when someone says 'but' ) the M cameras do tend to 'slip' from 'S' to 'C' uninvited because, IMO, the detente is too loose. Because I rarely use Discreet it is of no real concern to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 11, 2014 Share #115 Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) That is true, Erl. - but does it justify reverting to a firmware where an unlucky choice of SD card will lead to random lockups? Edited July 11, 2014 by jaapv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 11, 2014 Share #116 Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) See my post above. Issues were never limited only to using Discreet Mode in continuous drive (why would anybody do that?). Issues were: - corrupting SD cards (solved for me with 1.162) - constantly freezing camera (solved for me with 1.162) - shutter cocking delay with up to 30sec + waiting time until the camera was ready for another frame (solved for me with 1.162) Mostly solved since 1.162 but still occasional happening (as with later FW as tested). Issues with newer FW than 1.162 is that Leica implemented a different writing to card algorithm, providing more secure (but much slower) card writing to remedy the data corruption, freezes and card failures. I found with a distinct selection of SD cards and strict rules how to use them, FW 1.162 had given me not once any data corruption or SD card related issues while still providing fast write times. For this reason only, I stick with the older FW. You can repeat now endlessly how unreasonable this might be but this is what works best for me, having tested the alternatives. I advice against using FW 1.176 when using Discreet Mode, as FW 1.176 broke Discreet Mode functionality in certain circumstances (quick shutter re-cocking when taking consecutive shots was buggy). I do not remember if this was corrected in the current FW 1.196 but I do not intend to try it out as FW 1.162 works perfectly for me. Thank you. I never said it was unreasonable to be happy with the configuration one uses, we live in free countries.You are implementing a strict SD card regime. If it works for you I am happy for you ; I am saying that it appears to me that reverting to an older firmware to solve a problem that is based on an unusual way to operate the camera and - with that reversion- introduce the old problems is not the smartest thing to do. Remedying an avoidable problem by reverting to a less stable condition is what we call in Dutch "putting the horse behind the cart" Edited July 11, 2014 by jaapv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 11, 2014 Share #117 Posted July 11, 2014 I would hardly call using Discreet Mode as intended by Leica "unusual way to operate the camera". As I have tried to point out as well, in practical use over the last several years, I have not observed, having "introduce(d) the old problems". The very opposite is the fact as mentioned many times. Since sticking with the now several generations old FW 1.162 my M9 has been proven the second most solid, reliable digital M, I have ever used. It is eclipsed by this only by my original M8.2 which curiously never ever showed the slightest issue in operation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 11, 2014 Share #118 Posted July 11, 2014 C= Clack-whirr-clack-whirr-clack-whirr-clack-whirr-clack-whirr. S/D=clack........................whirr, clack.............................whirr, clack...................whirr. S=clack-whirr, clack-whirr, clack-whirr. What else do you need? I doubt that the combo C/D is as intended, reason I wonder that Leica did not disable it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted July 11, 2014 Share #119 Posted July 11, 2014 Jaap, you keep insistently beating on using Continuous Drive + Discreet Mode, yet nobody wants to use this or describes using this. I have several times pretty clearly described, NOT using this. Nevermind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 11, 2014 Share #120 Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) No, I am not beating you or anybody, but that is the configuration in which the lockups happen, in the others-according to our beta testers - not. Edited July 11, 2014 by jaapv 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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