Leica M240 and lux 35/1.4 really outperformed by Sony RX1R?

[charlesphoto99]

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I would say that a Leica M with the 80-200 prefocused just in front of the goal would do just as nicely.

 

Groan.

 

I've tried an M with a 70-200mm Nikon on it and to say it's a kludge compared to a dslr with same would be understating the fact (at least for me and how I work). That said I have shot some nice pics with my 135mm Tele-elmar and M9/MM, but rarely is it easy and best if subject is somewhat stationary (say the singer at the mic vs the singer jumping around for example).

 

Under high stress situations and needing a long lens (or super wide for that matter) nothing can surpass the speed and reliability of a modern dslr. I had half an hour to shoot an event from a helicopter earlier this summer and if I had gone up with a kludge like the M and adapter for a long lens it would have been a disaster (not to mention the fact that M's love to freeze up at the most inappropriate of times). Sometimes one just needs to use the right tool for the right job and swallow their mis-placed brand loyalty/identity.

[Jjbru]

I have a M 240 and a Fuji s100x. They do not play in the same league, but the Fuji is excellent as semi pro, but the Raws are not excellent. The menu is too complicated, it cannot be used in manual mode, but the price is ok. Good as second camera.

The Sony has a Leica optics, so it is not developpes from their issue! The accu is just insufficient, the sensor is probably excellent, but there is no Culture as in Leica . If you want a autofocus, buy a D7000 , not a Sony.its better for sports photography. . And the price of the Sony is just not low.

With Leica, you have a Pro Camera, superb optics, and another vision of photography. Rangefinder for street photography or portraits or landscape is a culture. , not a geek.

The only problem is that the market is dry, no or only rare good Leica optics on used market,

You cannot compare a Porsche and a Toyota! When you will sell it, you get 40% ofbthe purchased price, a leica is worth more, optics are quite a financial placement!

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[jaapv]

Groan.

 

I've tried an M with a 70-200mm Nikon on it and to say it's a kludge compared to a dslr with same would be understating the fact (at least for me and how I work). That said I have shot some nice pics with my 135mm Tele-elmar and M9/MM, but rarely is it easy and best if subject is somewhat stationary (say the singer at the mic vs the singer jumping around for example).

 

Under high stress situations and needing a long lens (or super wide for that matter) nothing can surpass the speed and reliability of a modern dslr. I had half an hour to shoot an event from a helicopter earlier this summer and if I had gone up with a kludge like the M and adapter for a long lens it would have been a disaster (not to mention the fact that M's love to freeze up at the most inappropriate of times). Sometimes one just needs to use the right tool for the right job and swallow their mis-placed brand loyalty/identity.

About the same I have been saying - the EVF is adequate but not in the same league as an SLR. Still - it works, and quite well in my hands.

[Peter H]

This feels like a typical LUF thread where everyone is saying the same thing and still managing to argue about it.

[tom0511]

How are you going to choose your focus point in a dynamic situation like a goal being scored?

I use magnification - the longer the lens the less. Focus peaking is indeed a learning curve, but works fine.

 

Hi Jaap,

No problem to choose focus point quickly.

I changed my answer since I am not interested to continue arguing. you use what you like and I use what I like (M for most things, dslr for tele and action.)

Cheers, Tom

Edited September 16, 2013 by tom0511

[jaapv]

Frame globally, hit focus and release half-reframe-release.

A good thing everybody has his own method. One camera for everybody would be quite dreary.

Edited September 16, 2013 by jaapv

[tom0511]

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Please excuse me but I just could not resist: But "prefocus, Frame globally, hit focus, tap-to-the-left. tap-to-the-right follow focus for the last corrections and synchronize the shutter push with the focus, and release half-reframe-release." is too much for me:cool:

 

I promise to stop now and I fully accept that what is good for me doesnt have to be good for you (and the other way around). And sorry for posting off topic-I wouldn't mind if the moderator deletes my off-topic-threads.

Tom

[jaapv]

I won't

[dwbell]

Groan.

 

Under high stress situations and needing a long lens (or super wide for that matter) nothing can surpass the speed and reliability of a modern dslr. I had half an hour to shoot an event from a helicopter earlier this summer and if I had gone up with a kludge like the M and adapter for a long lens it would have been a disaster (not to mention the fact that M's love to freeze up at the most inappropriate of times). Sometimes one just needs to use the right tool for the right job and swallow their mis-placed brand loyalty/identity.

 

Amen. Eg - Learn how the 1DX tracks objects, fast moving objects at that, and then claim zone focussing is the answer for sports. I look forward to banks and banks of sports shooters wielding their M's at the next World Cup! . (Here comes a link to the ONE photographer who used an iPhone in the last one to 'prove me wrong' - been here before see, same **** , different flies....)

[jaapv]

Huh? I said it was possible with the M - not that it was easier than with a DSLR. Or that zone focussing was "the answer"....

My beef is the suggestion that it is impossible without an all-singing all-dancing DSLR. Were photographers so much more accomplished before the advent of AF and is focussing a lost skill?

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Edited September 17, 2013 by jaapv

[IWC Doppel]

I really enjoy the challenge to be honest. I think it stops the 'spray and prey' approach of multi-frames per second. I sometime like shots misframed and out of focus when I've missed by a mile At full pelt with a 50mm at f5.6 and 1/500th I managed to find focus with smatterings of sand only ! I call it art

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[lct]

Sounds like some M users should use a DSLR from time to time here. Nothing personal of course.

[jaapv]

Oh, they do - when there is a real need....

[Rick]

Let's not kid ourselves... the RX1 with its pretty-good AF kills the M on street shooting. You can use its zone focus and it works very well or if you want more control use the center focus and reframe method and it will get the shot with a much, much higher percentage than the M.

 

I have spent this month standing side by side with my wife and she gets the fast shots while I miss them. I would estimate that a better shooter than myself (I'm pretty darn good) would get more, but Linda and the RX1 would simply kill them. When she had the 5DII it was even more of a rout.

[-Lss-]

Let's not kid ourselves... the RX1 with its pretty-good AF kills the M on street shooting.

Such generalizations either fit you or they don't.

[colonel]

Let's not kid ourselves... the RX1 with its pretty-good AF kills the M on street shooting. You can use its zone focus and it works very well or if you want more control use the center focus and reframe method and it will get the shot with a much, much higher percentage than the M.

 

I have spent this month standing side by side with my wife and she gets the fast shots while I miss them. I would estimate that a better shooter than myself (I'm pretty darn good) would get more, but Linda and the RX1 would simply kill them. When she had the 5DII it was even more of a rout.

 

Disagree

The only advantage for me is the quiet shutter.

I much prefer holding to my eye although at some times it's more challenging

I imagine the M with LV mostly solves that issue.

One can become quite adept with estimating focus distance and of course the big advantage of manual focus, apart from the higher precision then AF IMHO, is not having continuos refocus for moving subjects or other intrusions in the picture.

[tom0511]

Let's not kid ourselves... the RX1 with its pretty-good AF kills the M on street shooting. You can use its zone focus and it works very well or if you want more control use the center focus and reframe method and it will get the shot with a much, much higher percentage than the M.

 

I have spent this month standing side by side with my wife and she gets the fast shots while I miss them. I would estimate that a better shooter than myself (I'm pretty darn good) would get more, but Linda and the RX1 would simply kill them. When she had the 5DII it was even more of a rout.

OK, now I have to defend the rangefinder - while the Rx1 and other mirrorless with AF might be slightly faster to focus I would not say its a big difference compared to a rangefinder camera (in hands of someone who is used to focus rangefinders). And the wider the lens gets the bigger the advantage of the rangefinder.(oops-forgot the rx1 doesnt go wider than 35mm anyways)

[naturephoto1]

OK, now I have to defend the rangefinder - while the Rx1 and other mirrorless with AF might be slightly faster to focus I would not say its a big difference compared to a rangefinder camera (in hands of someone who is used to focus rangefinders). And the wider the lens gets the bigger the advantage of the rangefinder.(oops-forgot the rx1 doesnt go wider than 35mm anyways)

 

However, a mirrorless camera (or working with the M with the EVF) does afford the photographer to see the DOF at a given aperture that a rangefinder only camera like an M9 does not. That is certainly an advantage when you do not have to take the camera from the eye to check the DOF on camera lenses offering aperture rings). I do not have any M camera or an RX1. But that is my experience shooting Leica R cameras for about 28 years, Mamiya 7II (which is a rangefinder), and 4" X 5" cameras.

 

Rich

Edited September 17, 2013 by naturephoto1

[colonel]

However, a mirrorless camera (or working with the M with the EVF) does afford the photographer to see the DOF at a given aperture that a rangefinder only camera like an M9 does not. That is certainly an advantage when you do not have to take the camera from the eye to check the DOF on camera lenses offering aperture rings). I do not have any M camera or an RX1. But that is my experience shooting Leica R cameras for about 28 years, Mamiya 7II (which is a rangefinder), and 4" X 5" cameras.

 

Rich

 

I guess

But since I mainly shoot f1.4 or f8/9 I know what DOF I am likely to get

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Rick]

I am pretty good a using the RF for the last 6 years and MF SLRs for 20+ years. I can guesstimate distance pretty well too. But, the RX1,which you can hold to your eye as well, can focus and hit the correct subject on automatic matrix focus so fast. It also chooses the ISO and aperture to keep the action and movement sharp, if you want. Or, as I've said, you can choose all of these things yourself and just let the RX1 AF the center point.

 

Having said all of this, I still would take no other camera with me than the M. The other advantages the M has out-weigh the advantages of the RX1, for me. But, the future is coming at as fast...

 

By the way, on this trip I have dropped my M once and tipped it over on the tripod and all is still well. The base plate is getting pretty beat up from bracing the camera at slow apertures and my lenses are getting more dinged up. I have got caught twice in the pouring rain. The M keeps on going. The new M is solid.

 

The RX1 has erased the memory card once and asked to erase it 3 more times. What happens is that all of the sudden the RX1 displays a message that their exists a file corruption and would you like to fix it... Accept or Cancel? I chose Accept the first time and the camera simply reformatted the card!!! The next 3 times it happened I just took the card (4 different cards) out of the camera and it was perfectly fine in LR. So, Sony solves its card problems by just reformatting the card for you! And, us Leica owners think we have a few card problems.