hamey Posted July 2, 2013 Share #101 Posted July 2, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey, Leica did it on purpose, to sound as good as Nikon ?! However it took one year for their engineers to emulate the same lockup issue. Leica Digital can NEVER emulate Nikon or Canon period....Lol. This is how I see it. Leica builds it's Digital cameras from outside in, nice solid bodies, nicely crafted, well designed and feel of quality, built for a lifetime. However the guts or their electronics is a lot to be desired. On the other hand, Canon and Nikon and most other Japanese models are built from inside out.. Excellent electronics, very reliable componants, their bodies are basic but well built, they are built for a limited lifespan but most likely outlast anything from Leica. So which one do you prefer. If you want the perfect LEICA Digital Camera, let the Japanese build it for you. Ken. PS.. Check out Digitalrev what it takes to distruct of some Canon and Nikon bodies especially the 7D. And yes..my M240 brochure has been very reliable, the pages havn't fallen out yet...Lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Hi hamey, Take a look here Leica M Typ 240: Unreliable or Reliable - Survey. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted July 2, 2013 Share #102 Posted July 2, 2013 Looks like non voters are somewhat vocal here. Nobody forces them to buy the M240 so why do they spend their time raining on others parade? Jealousy, agenda or what? Edit: Not directed at you Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted July 2, 2013 Share #103 Posted July 2, 2013 Hello LCT. Thats ok, Even though I have cancelled my order for now, I still really want to buy the Leica M, but there are still some issues with it, hoping Leica will read some of our negativity and address these concerns. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted July 2, 2013 Share #104 Posted July 2, 2013 Just a personal observation here, but I think a problem with this 'poll' is that the words 'reliable' and 'unreliable' are generally subjective. One might feel that if their new car leaves them on the side of the road, that it's still a 'reliable' car and that it simply needs a tweak or a specific parts replacement, etc.. Another person might very well categorize being left on the side of the road as a sign of an 'unreliable' car and once is enough. I agree with you about the subjectivity of the term. I was reluctant to answer because I generally don't find discussions of this nature to be productive, but because I had so much trouble with the camera on Sunday, I thought I should respond in the interest of completeness--share my experience. I like Leica products and certainly will continue to use them, but for a manufacturer of premium-priced products, Leica falls short. I haven't complained about the color in the 240(M) and can live with the problem until they come up with a fix, but skin colors are constantly a problem and greens in the sun have too much yellow. Both can be fixed without too much effort, but once people began to identify the problem, Leica should have fixed it promptly or issued a notice saying we are aware of the problem and are working on it. Same for camera lock up. My work (hobby) isn't mission critical stuff, so I can live with a lock up every couple of hours--I am not sure whether it is locking up up or going into or getting stuck in some sort of extended sleep mode--but once again, this should not be happening with a premium camera. As I said, what troubles me is the lack of comment from Leica--I don't read every post, so Leica may have responded and I missed it. But any response should be sent by e-mail to each owner. Owner's should not be presumed or required to read a forum that is unaffiliated with the company. In sum, there will be problems even with premium products, but premium product manufacturers should be forthright and candid with their customer base--really no reasons that this shouldn't be true of all manufacturers. On this score, Leica comes up short and disappoints. Jack Siegel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 2, 2013 Share #105 Posted July 2, 2013 Well, the nail in the Morgan shorted out half the wiring and started a minor fire within a month of delivery, so I am not THAT sure about fuctionality. Still I drove the thing happily for twenty years afterwards, quirks, warts and all. And on the subject of reliabilty - and I apologize for the car analogy, but they are a technologically complicated device that everybody is familiar with- I had a Volvo 745 Turbo that had a habit of breaking down by blowing up a number of computing devices. In the end the fault was traced down to an intermittent mass contact because paint had not been removed properly from the contact surface. Quality control or inevitable human error? Drove a Morgan for 20 years and still have functioning kidneys and some vertebral discs left - amazing. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 2, 2013 Share #106 Posted July 2, 2013 Hello LCT. Thats ok, Even though I have cancelled my order for now, I still really want to buy the Leica M, but there are still some issues with it, hoping Leica will read some of our negativity and address these concerns. Ken. Hi Ken no problem but the last time i've been so happy with a camera was 30+ years ago when i received my first M4 so i wouldn't lose my place in the waiting list if i were you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pos Posted July 2, 2013 Share #107 Posted July 2, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) After a day of use, having battery charging problems, the battery won't charge. So, unfortunately i have to vote for: unreliable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 2, 2013 Share #108 Posted July 2, 2013 After a day of use, having battery charging problems, the battery won't charge. So, unfortunately i have to vote for: unreliable. I had a similar problem some years ago on a new Ricoh GX200. I found there was a tiny bit of polythene bag on the temperature sensor battery terminal, preventing proper contact. It charged a small amount and then stopped. Worth a quick look. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted July 2, 2013 Share #109 Posted July 2, 2013 It seems that now a shocking 10% of new owners of the M240 have found reliability issues with their camera within the first couple of months of ownership! Or maybe we should conclude that if 10% of the cameras seem to have reliability issues, that the camera as a whole is unreliable? I mean if 1 in 10 has problems, doesn't that make that you can't really rely on the camera? Just showing that statistics can be bent in many directions. Btw this year I have bought a Monochrom, a 50 summilux and a 28 summicron and still contemplate the M240. To be honest I feel I should be invited to the Leica parade, and be allowed to rain on it a little once in a while. I still think it's a great company and will continue to fund their development of new digital rangefinders, so I see nothing wrong in pointing out past and future mistakes as I see them. They're just personal opinions and shouldn't bother people so much. But if you really want to have a forum with only present owners of a specific Leica model, then perhaps this can be arranged in the form of a separate passworded subforum? But suggesting some threads are off limits to me because I don't buy a camera seems too weird for me, so I will continue to contribute on any subject I have an opinion on. Hopefully this will be allowed and appreciated. I certainly mean no disrespect to anyone's parade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted July 2, 2013 Share #110 Posted July 2, 2013 Rick-Can I enter replies for each body I own? First body=yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 2, 2013 Share #111 Posted July 2, 2013 I don't get all the aggression over a survey. What's wrong with a survey for pete's sake? I don't own an M so can't contribute to that but I do have one fairly pertinent thing to add... I count my M9 as not entirely reliable. Sometimes it locks up, sometimes I get weird frames which are full of bright pink pixels, sometime I need to take the battery out occasionally to reset the thing, but for what it's worth I also need to do this with my Hasselblad and Phase One, even more so. Sometimes more than once on every shoot. My Canons too aren't exempt from cock ups either. Though I must confess those Canons are the most stable electronic camera I've had. Both the M9 and Blad are what I make a living from though so I consider them plenty reliable enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted July 2, 2013 Share #112 Posted July 2, 2013 Looks like non voters are somewhat vocal here. Nobody forces them to buy the M240 so why do they spend their time raining on others parade? Jealousy, agenda or what?... I think the above comment emphasizes the issue. If someone points out quality issues with the M it is considered "raining on others' parade". It is treated almost like attacking someone's religion or telling them that their wife is ugly. And, I have bought the M (paid in full, but don't have it yet), I'd rather find out about the issues than have problems swept under the rug by the denial of ultra fans. Then, when it arrives, I can make an informed decision whether to tolerate (what some call reliability) known issues or turn around and auction it off, and wait for fixes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 2, 2013 Share #113 Posted July 2, 2013 This survey is aimed at actual owners of the M240. There are other threads on the LUF and elsewhere for people who don't have the body and feel qualified to explain that it is reliable or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share #114 Posted July 3, 2013 But suggesting some threads are off limits to me because I don't buy a camera seems too weird for me, so I will continue to contribute on any subject I have an opinion on. Hopefully this will be allowed and appreciated. I certainly mean no disrespect to anyone's parade. Pieter - I never said that you can't have an opinion on the camera just because you don't own one. You are more than welcome to continue to opinionate all over yourself, and describe what you imagine the reliability is of a camera you don't own. To be clear, I only said you can't vote in my survey. Carry on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted July 3, 2013 Share #115 Posted July 3, 2013 It seems that now a shocking 10% of new owners of the M240 have found reliability issues with their camera within the first couple of months of ownership! Not sure a statistician would entirely agree. This is not a random survey. Forums are magnets for people with equipment issues ...... I would suspect the vast majority of Leica users never come near the forum ....... and the new ones that do are looking for info as they have a problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 3, 2013 Share #116 Posted July 3, 2013 Not sure a statistician would entirely agree. This is not a random survey. Forums are magnets for people with equipment issues ...... I would suspect the vast majority of Leica users never come near the forum ....... and the new ones that do are looking for info as they have a problem I am not sure I agree with the above. A very high proportion of the early purchasers of the M240 will be Leica enthusiasts who pre-ordered the camera long before it came out. Other than folks who speak neither German nor English, a high proportion of those will know about, if not be members of the LUF. In that it is such an excellent source of knowledge about all aspects of Leica cameras, which I think all of us agree can be idiosyncratic at times, why would you not belong to or read the forum, if you can. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted July 3, 2013 Share #117 Posted July 3, 2013 Rick-Due to no reply on my question under post #110 above: Second body=yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 3, 2013 Share #118 Posted July 3, 2013 There appear to be whole chunks of this thread gone missing. I do wish that the moderators would not do this without the courtesy of a PM to the posters to explain why they are taking this action Wilson :( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted July 3, 2013 Share #119 Posted July 3, 2013 Wilson-AGREE! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 3, 2013 Share #120 Posted July 3, 2013 I always send PM-s This time I was called away before I could send a PM to the "collateral damage" Sorry, but a bit of leeway helps in this job. Whole chunks = three posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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