Dlux6 vs LX7 Don't laugh

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I think that's an excellent question, but doubt either company will submit a reply for potentially "letting the cat out of the bag" if I can find the article I've read before somewhere I'll post it, but I think even the lenses themselves are made by Panasonic, to a Leica specification.

 

Indeed they are. This is from the Panasonic website;

 

* Leica is a registered trademark of Leica Microsystems IR GmbH. Leica DC lenses are manufactured using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company’s quality standards.

 

So Panasonic make the lenses, to standards set by Leica. Whether Leica have much/any input at the design stage is another question - I would like to think they at least 'rubber stamp' any design. Leica branded lenses also feature on Panasonic video cameras.

 

It's worth remembering that the lens on the Digilux 1 and LC5 was identical in all but name to the lens on a contemporary Canon and Olympus model.

[Guest badbob]

The actual question isn't any of that - it's listed below, and asks Leica what if anything is done to the Leica brand camera itsef to add value, as compared to Panasonic editions.

 

Another worthy question to go along with the notion that Leica only certifies the Leica lens on Panasonic cameras, is whether Leica certifies the entire Leica edition camera and not just the lens. If Leica is in the best of moods, they may reveal some facts not already known.

 

I don't think that who exactly applies the mods or finishing touches matters, if in fact there are such things as special Leica features or properties, as long as there's a statement that clarifies what those Leica "extras" are.

 

I'm certain that nothing Leica says or doesn't say will affect me, since they won't diss their own camera. But I see that others here may be disappointed when Leica does not agree that their camera is "merely a rebadge". It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall there and see their reaction to the question or questions, if as I assume they won't play the game and reveal their hand. And if they don't reveal anything beyond disagreeing that their camera is "merely a rebadge", what then? I win, because they disagree with you? Don't be too much in a hurry for an answer - they won't be.

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[Lee Martin]

They are hardly going to admit to it beng a re-badge at 4 times the cost are they, that would be suicidal . Clearly there are add ons in the form of hand grips and different finishes at a cosmetic level, but the lens, sensor and electrical components, the actual significant elements that record the light to produce the end result will be the same. I assume with 40 +years experience that you shoot raw, so with the two cameras stood side by side at the same location, you'll get the same data to prepare your photograph from. I don't regard the discussion as a win/lose issue, the winner is the person who gets the best photograph.

[Guest badbob]

They are hardly going to admit to it beng a re-badge at 4 times the cost are they, that would be suicidal . Clearly there are add ons in the form of hand grips and different finishes at a cosmetic level, but the lens, sensor and electrical components, the actual significant elements that record the light to produce the end result will be the same. I assume with 40 +years experience that you shoot raw, so with the two cameras stood side by side at the same location, you'll get the same data to prepare your photograph from. I don't regard the discussion as a win/lose issue, the winner is the person who gets the best photograph.

 

I can't argue with your technical comments, even though it may seem that way on any specific point. But I'm not budging on the core issue whether they reply or not. Eventually they will.... there are ways. But I do take issue with you being so certain of their position, based on a pre-supposition you have. Now you can consider your suppositions to be 100 percent valid, but I don't think you'd get staked in a bet that gave you a 100 to 1 point advantage based on the assumption that you're 100 percent correct. And when you then add supposition to supposition (what you think they'll say plus what you believe), you're getting onto that slippery slope. The email went, and if a reply is not forthcoming, there will be additional calls and emails, until they answer the core question, which is also the most reasonable question. So I'd advise some patience - I'm sure more than just 3 or 4 of us would like to see an official statement, or even an unofficial statement, if it's made by an official person.

[earleygallery]

 

Another worthy question to go along with the notion that Leica only certifies the Leica lens on Panasonic cameras, is whether Leica certifies the entire Leica edition camera and not just the lens. If Leica is in the best of moods, they may reveal some facts not already known.

 

be.

 

I copied the statement Panasonic make, above. Read it again.

 

Leica don't 'certify' any lenses or cameras, they have certified the processes at Panasonic.

 

The value Leica add to their versions of the Panasonic cameras is in the styling (if you happen to prefer it), the package, i.e. Software and warranty, and the red dot - yes you do pay more because it says Leica on the front, yes that does add value as s/h values show.

 

What is so hard about that for you to understand?

 

Your edition costs even more that the regular version - next you'll be claiming that fashion designers have individually worked styled and finished each camera in their studios.

[Guest badbob]

I copied the statement Panasonic make, above. Read it again.

 

Leica don't 'certify' any lenses or cameras, they have certified the processes at Panasonic.

 

The value Leica add to their versions of the Panasonic cameras is in the styling (if you happen to prefer it), the package, i.e. Software and warranty, and the red dot - yes you do pay more because it says Leica on the front, yes that does add value as s/h values show.

 

What is so hard about that for you to understand?

 

Your edition costs even more that the regular version - next you'll be claiming that fashion designers have individually worked styled and finished each camera in their studios.

 

You have a problem. You keep repeating yourself and apparently don't realize it. So understand this: I'm looking for an answer to my specific question, and it must come from Leica, and address my question specifically. You don't have the answer - you already admitted that in your (and the other guy's) repeated posts.

 

I know for a fact that Leica adds value to the D-Lux6 over the LX7, I know there are differences in the firmware, now all that remains is for Leica to state exactly what that value is, not what you think it is.

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If you 'know for a fact' what the differences are why aren't you telling us?

 

The firmware is different I agree - the Leica version says 'Leica'. The review referred to above stated that files from both cameras were identical.

 

What differences do you see?

[Guest badbob]

If you 'know for a fact' what the differences are why aren't you telling us? The firmware is different I agree - the Leica version says 'Leica'. The review referred to above stated that files from both cameras were identical. What differences do you see?

 

If you are so sure that you're right, why are you asking me?

 

The firmware is different, ergo proof of difference.

 

Software is complex. I do process mfg. software for a living. I know how complex and how tricky it gets. You can't possibly know what all is hidden in Leica's software/firmware.

 

I don't know what you know and vice-versa. But I do know you can't force a belief by repetition, unless you're Fox News or something on that scale. Give it up.

 

Leica certainly has their view on what value they add with the D-Lux6. Now that I've invested a few hundred dollars in one of these (my first-ever "Panasonic Leica"), I'm really warming up to the idea that Leica will reveal a summary of the value they add to this and possibly other Pana-Leicas as well. My employer for example has all sorts of blurbs they provide on request that detail what sort of value one of their products represent. This isn't rocket science - it's sales and PR. It's there - you know it's there - I can almost sense the content of their reply in advance, telling us detail by detail why the D-Lux6 is better than any other similar brand, even Panasonic. I've got time to wait, Time kinda stands still here anyway, like a snake sunning itself on the road. Patience is the companion of wisdom.

[earleygallery]

If you are so sure that you're right, why are you asking me?

 

The firmware is different, ergo proof of difference.

 

Software is complex. I do process mfg. software for a living. I know how complex and how tricky it gets. You can't possibly know what all is hidden in Leica's software/firmware.

 

I don't know what you know and vice-versa. But I do know you can't force a belief by repetition, unless you're Fox News or something on that scale. Give it up.

 

Leica certainly has their view on what value they add with the D-Lux6. Now that I've invested a few hundred dollars in one of these (my first-ever "Panasonic Leica"), I'm really warming up to the idea that Leica will reveal a summary of the value they add to this and possibly other Pana-Leicas as well. My employer for example has all sorts of blurbs they provide on request that detail what sort of value one of their products represent. This isn't rocket science - it's sales and PR. It's there - you know it's there - I can almost sense the content of their reply in advance, telling us detail by detail why the D-Lux6 is better than any other similar brand, even Panasonic. I've got time to wait, Time kinda stands still here anyway, like a snake sunning itself on the road. Patience is the companion of wisdom.

 

Badbob, don't you see the contractions in what you say?

 

I thought you had an LX7? That's a 'Panasonic Leica' too, same as your new camera in fact! Surely you notice the similarities more than the differences?

 

The Leica firmware has to have the Leica logo, so yes it's different.

 

The cameras are all made by Panasonic in Japan (it will mention Japan somewhere on the camera I'm sure). They go from Panasonic to the dealers. Leica have entrusted Panasonic to do a good job.

 

Leica are notoriously vague when it comes to any details on their products so good luck with your request! But lots of people here (and elsewhere on the net as we've referred you to) are telling you the same thing, but you refuse to accept any of it.

 

I've nothing more to add, so I shall leave it there. Believe what you like, some people think that Elvis and Diana are alive and well and live together on some desert island. Some say the world really is flat. They won't accept any other opinions either.

 

Enjoy your Dlux anyway, it's just as good as the Panasonic

[bill]

Tell you what... I shall write the "reply" from Leica. It will be interesting to see how close I get to the marketing puff I guarantee that they will use.

 

Sent from another Galaxy

[Guytou]

...So understand this: I'm looking for an answer to my specific question, and it must come from Leica, and address my question specifically. ...

 

I think that Panasonic would answer the question more easily: who manufactures what …

 

Guy

[bill]

Disclaimer:

 

Any similarity to responses sent or received is purely coincidental...

"Dear valued Leica customer,

 

Thank you for your enquiry about your G-Star Raw special edition. We are very pleased that you like it so much. Leica and Panasonic work together to bring you digital cameras that meet your needs. The Leica D-Lux series is the embodiment of this collaboration. We are glad that you realise that Leica adds value to your ownership and hope that you have many happy years with your G-Star Raw!

 

Thank you.

 

Leica CS"

 

...in fact I suspect they may find a way to make their answer even more obfuscatory. It is not in Leica or Panasonic's interests to provide crystal clarity to the casual enquirer.

 

Let's see shall we?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest badbob]

I've nothing more to add, so I shall leave it there. Believe what you like, some people think that Elvis and Diana are alive and well and live together on some desert island. Some say the world really is flat. They won't accept any other opinions either.

 

So because I don't believe in YOU, I must be hallucinating, like seeing Elvis? Just who died and made you a god?

[timd.]

badbob, reading all this, i believe you are the one who's right, everybody else is wrong.

your d-lux was made in germany by hand, your iPad is one of the few ones made by apple's trusted workers in cupertino. everything else, e.g. the words 'made in japan' on your leica, or 'assembled in china' on your pad is just unrealistic, maybe made up to save some money at the customs department.

the links to the panasonic website, to wikipedia and fastcompany, provided in the posts by other forum members, mislead you. the linked websites have been hacked and changed just to give you false information.

badge engineering is something made up by internet trolls. it does not happen in the real world.

 

but, after all, it's the results that count:

I had both until I gave the LX7 to a photo club. I don't see any difference. The D-Lux6 has the same flaws as the LX7.

[Guest badbob]

badbob, reading all this, i believe you are the one who's right, everybody else is wrong.

your d-lux was made in germany by hand, your iPad is one of the few ones made by apple's trusted workers in cupertino. everything else, e.g. the words 'made in japan' on your leica, or 'assembled in china' on your pad is just unrealistic, maybe made up to save some money at the customs department.

the links to the panasonic website, to wikipedia and fastcompany, provided in the posts by other forum members, mislead you. the linked websites have been hacked and changed just to give you false information.

badge engineering is something made up by internet trolls. it does not happen in the real world.

 

but, after all, it's the results that count:

 

Now you're foaming at the mouth. And all you had to do was wait for Leica's reply, but you couldn't wait and posted this crazy rant.

[timd.]

Now you're foaming at the mouth. And all you had to do was wait for Leica's reply, but you couldn't wait and posted this crazy rant.

 

i'm not foaming. i'm feeding the troll. it's fun.

[Guest badbob]

i'm not foaming. i'm feeding the troll. it's fun.

 

I actually have Leica cameras and have actually sent the request to Leica. You have done nothing but be a nuisance posting crazy rants here. I think ordinary people can tell the difference. i.e., you are clearly the troll.

[timd.]

I actually have Leica cameras and have actually sent the request to Leica. You have done nothing but be a nuisance posting crazy rants here. I think ordinary people can tell the difference. i.e., you are clearly the troll.

 

actually i have given advice to the op and to you, providing the email-address you were not able to find on the leica homepage.

i guess ordinary people have no difficulty making up their mind about all this.

besides, 'actually having leica cameras' qualifies for what?

[Guest badbob]

actually i have given advice to the op and to you, providing the email-address you were not able to find on the leica homepage.

i guess ordinary people have no difficulty making up their mind about all this.

besides, 'actually having leica cameras' qualifies for what?

 

Congratulations. You did the one and only good deed here, then turned around and blew it with a bizarre and hateful rant. So that qualifies you for what?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Lux

[Lee Martin]

Leica don't seem to be chomping at the bit to try and prove you right do they ? If the differences did exist and were so valued significant and worth while, they would have surely wanted prove their point to you and the global audience. Perhaps they actually have nothIng to add that you wanted them to say. I can't believe they don't want to publicise their latest release and exIplain how much of an improvement it is over the Panasonic . Not looking good is it ??

Edited July 11, 2013 by Lee Martin