More lines - high iso banding - acceptable or not?

[camboychan]

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Hi People

 

I have been searching on here for high iso banding threads and this certainly looks like it.

I have updated fw and changed card but made no difference.

Does this seem an acceptable level of banding or a sensor problem?

 

Thank you as always.

 

Jon

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[jaapv]

What ISO? It looks like a typical over-1600 M8 shot

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[camboychan]

Hi Jaap

Thanks for the quick response, 2500 and right hand line visible at 640 too.

Cheers

[Erik Gunst Lund]

What raw converter and how much do you try to pull the 'handles'

 

Looks like you are trying too hard to lift the shadows.

[jaapv]

It is not just the ISO, it is the exposure level too. I would not worry about this and run DFine over it.

I think I can see what went wrong here. You had a very high contrast situation here with interior light and windows. So you decided to preserve the highlighted windows and underexposed the room quite a bit. In post processing you probably had to pull up exposure by one stop - now you are at ISO 5000. Then you pull the shadows slider up in order to balance the room and the windows as best you can. The shadows are at ISO 10.000 or 20.000 now. That is asking too much from a CCD sensor. The same scenario can apply to ISO 640, although you will obviously have some more leeway.

The answer is to (best solution) get it right in the first place: use a fill flash. Or shoot two different exposures, one for the room and one for the windows and merge in Photoshop.

Edited June 27, 2013 by jaapv

[camboychan]

Hi Guys

 

It is in Aperture and I haven't touched the levels, I thought it could possibly be exposure related as the shots are well under. It did the line against a pure white wall too so was unsure if it was banding caused by exposure or a fault.

 

I was testing the camera to buy and didn't take anything against the white wall at correct exposure as I was trying to run max iso @ f16

 

Thanks for the input.

[jaapv]

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If you don't trust the camera you should certainly not buy it; there are plenty out there. Personally I wouldn't worry too much. I looks rather normal and Leica is pretty customer-friendly should a sensor fault develop notwithstanding.

[camboychan]

It was a collectors camera and has only done 120 actuations. It is a 2006 early S/n camera. I read Leica updated something on the cameras from Nov 2006 to fix banding and ghosting. I am probably going to buy it as a 2nd body to the M9 and as per Japp's advice not worry about it.

Keep you posted.

[jaapv]

In that case do send it to Leica. Chances are that it needs an important upgrade to the hardware. The firmware will need to be updated too, but that is DIY - take the file from Leica's website.

[camboychan]

Spoke with service in Solms who advised there was an Electronics fix for all pre Nov 2006 M8's It was to address high iso banding (all post end of November 2006 M8's shipped with the fix). Bought the camera and will be sending it in to get it sorted next week.

 

Great help on here and from Leica Solms.

 

Thanks again.

[jaapv]

To be precise, this is the upgrade your camera needs.

[JC331]

Anyone know of a way to check if an M8 has had the fix via the service menu entries?

[jaapv]

No- ask Leica. They have records.

[JC331]

I should have worked it out from the original posters comments as presumably they would have told him. Spoke to Leica and although mine has been repaired (in 2009), there is no specific mention of the fix being applied, although it doesn't really exhibit banding unless really pushed and even then it's not that bad, so perhaps it was done but not documented, or didn't need it in the first place.

[AncientCityPhoto]

That doesn't look like an issue. The M8 shows thin lines on occasion at 2500 ISO. Not in every image, but sometimes. I have shot this camera a lot at ISO 2500. Its not quite predictable nor fully consistent. Exposure has to be nailed, and generally a little brighter than you usually want. Ide rather take a hot 2500 shot and crush the blacks a bit. Its higher contrast than I usually shoot, but the noise virtually disappears and any slight noise banding goes away. Underexposed 2500 shots or very low key dim shots show the noise much more readily.

 

That doesn't look like the banding issues that the M8 first hand on release. Those were seriously visible defects. In fact my 5DmkII shows larger banding at high ISO than the M8. (then again...we are talking 3 stops higher ISO too...but its all relative.)

[JC331]

If the original poster or anyone else is interested, here's a (reduced size) shot from my M8 at 2500 iso, similar situation, default lightroom 3.6 conversion, 2 100% crops as well from centre right and lower left areas.

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Edited July 3, 2013 by John Carolan

[camboychan]

Hi guys. Great to see all the info. Have sent the camera back to solms and they are going to sort the electronics. They may also map a line of pixels. They checked the serial number and said it had been in in 2008 but couldn't confirm if it was to fix the capacitors hence sending it in.

[JC331]

Would be interested in seeing a test photo to compare when you get the M8 back if you don't mind.