MarkP Posted May 31, 2013 Share #21 Posted May 31, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't think the CAN raise their prices anymore! They're borderline ridiculous as it is. only borderline ridiculous? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Pop Posted May 31, 2013 Share #22 Posted May 31, 2013 Ah yes...this is always a thorny subject. First off, whenever someone who enjoys Leica makes any comments about retaining the M ethos, they're often dismissed as elitist or resistant to change or living in the past. Etc. Etc. At the risk of putting myself in this category, I'd say for me that first off, I always wanted Leica M (back in the film days) because of their optics, their quiet operation, their simplicity, and often mechanical/jewel-like quality. Does that make one a better photographer? Absolutely not...but there is a joy to using something you really enjoy the feel of. And learning to use an instrument (whether camera or piano) well and working within its limitations and possibilities is the sign of a good artist in my opinion. My film Leica is an MP; a joy to use and feels wonderful. I bought the M9 because for me, it made the closest translation over from the film cameras to digital capture - but (and this was important) without a lot of the consumer electronic overburdening that now defines the digital camera market. Could Leica do better with reliability, better ISO, write speed, etc. to bring it up a notch or two (or three)? Certainly. But after that, I still want simplicity. I like the manual controls, simple menus etc. If someone wants thumb dials, video, 30 different metering possibilities, scene modes, 15 shots per second, etc., they're free to buy a 5D which is a great camera. Leica's free to build their own version of a 5D as well if they want....but I don't want them to turn an M into a 5D...it just won't be an M anymore, and I got into M photography with full knowledge of all the options out there. I'm trying to uncomplicate my life - too many 'possibilities' and so forth make me feel like I'm taking 'pictures' with a personal computer that happens to have a lens attached, as opposed to a camera that happens to use digital capture. I couldn't care less about EVF, focus peaking, video, etc. I actually had an M240 in my hands...to buy from the store if I wanted to (I know...and people are still waiting...!). But I turned it down. I still might change my mind in the future, but I really don't want my photography to become a constant game of "what are the latest camera features that should be in the next version?" I have enough of that crap with the iphone2, 3, 4, 5, etc. etc. Deal breakers for me are anything that keeps pushing photography down the path of a reduction to consumer electronics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted May 31, 2013 Share #23 Posted May 31, 2013 FWIW... 1) Further price increases over and above local inflation 2) Should the M become ever heavier with electronic 'features' 3) Should the traditional Leica photographer be 'forgotten' in a drive to appeal to a new, more luxury gadget focused consumer 4) Should another brand start to better serve my needs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted May 31, 2013 Share #24 Posted May 31, 2013 i feel insecure about the direction Leica's taking...to solve this, i just went out and bought a MP...now that's a machine that is done right. Kudos to Leica, even when they are on the verge of screwing up, they still take my money Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted May 31, 2013 Share #25 Posted May 31, 2013 .....whenever someone who enjoys Leica makes any comments about retaining the M ethos, they're often dismissed as elitist or resistant to change or living in the past...... To me the M ethos is quite straightforward. Firstly its the rangefinder - this is my primary requirement in an M series camera - and as far as I am concerned if it goes that is a deal breaker (and no, I don't want an electronic alternative). Secondly, its simplicity of design and use. Control and size bloat is a potential risk and I'd prefer innovation which reduces the need for lots of controls (physical or menu) and increased dimensions. Not yet a deal breaker, but hitting M5 size would start to become a concern..... If I'm being elitist, resistant to change or even living in the past, then so be it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 31, 2013 Share #26 Posted May 31, 2013 A deal breaker for me would be the end of the optical viewfinder with split image rangefinder that Leica seem to be preparing by calling "M" any sort of mirrorless camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theno23 Posted May 31, 2013 Share #27 Posted May 31, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm not going to try and predict the future, I'll continue buying Leica M's as long as they continue to be the most ergonomic camera for me, and I can afford them. Right now, I wouldn't want an EVF-only camera as my main body, but what if in 20 years an EVF outperforms an optical finder in every respect*, would I still want an optical rangefinder? Of course not. * The only thing I can't quite see is how you would get the "seeing around the frame" effect in a rangefinder - I find that invaluable to aid in composition. I guess you could have a bigger-than-35mm sensor, but the lenses don't really cover that much outside the frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikP Posted May 31, 2013 Share #28 Posted May 31, 2013 I'm not going to try and predict the future' date=' I'll continue buying Leica M's as long as they continue to be the most ergonomic camera for me, and I can afford them. Right now, I wouldn't want an EVF-only camera as my main body, but what if in 20 years an EVF outperforms an optical finder in every respect*, would I still want an optical rangefinder? Of course not. * The only thing I can't quite see is how you would get the "seeing around the frame" effect in a rangefinder - I find that invaluable to aid in composition. I guess you could have a bigger-than-35mm sensor, but the lenses don't really cover that much outside the frame.[/quote'] Agree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 31, 2013 Share #29 Posted May 31, 2013 Right now, I wouldn't want an EVF-only camera as my main body, but what if in 20 years an EVF outperforms an optical finder in every respect*, would I still want an optical rangefinder? Of course not. . I agree, I'm not that bothered one way or another if it was an EVF or optical finder, but whatever it is it should be the best, not a catch up addition to the camera. And if Leica can't keep up, at least keep it simple, I would expect that in another twenty years time simplicity will be the latest craze, back to basic's. And if Leica can't do that in a beautiful and refined way there is no hope. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted May 31, 2013 Share #30 Posted May 31, 2013 Plastic. They would never use plastic. It's too... midwest modern. In typical Teutonic engineering style the material they'd used would be "Plastik" which would, far and away, be superior to mere plastics. And my apology to the OP. I misread his original post and find that we are, in fact, on the same page. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronazle Posted June 1, 2013 Share #31 Posted June 1, 2013 Probably use of plastic would do it for me. Without a doubt, dropping the m mount would be an absolute deal breaker. Regards, ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardgb Posted June 2, 2013 Share #32 Posted June 2, 2013 Deal breaker: If Leicas started to be sold alongside mobile phones, MP3 players, computers, and the like. In the city where I live, there isn't a 'camera shop' but there are plenty of electronics outlets selling (Japanese) digital photographic equipment. The nearest 'proper' photographic shop is 80km away... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 4, 2013 Share #33 Posted June 4, 2013 The essence of Leica for me is apparent simplicity with the best image quality. So, departing from the M lens aesthetic, and no full frame, with complex menu systems. I bought the M9 because of the reputation of Leica's primes, and because it was manual focus with direct and simple aperture, shutter and ISO control - that's it. I won't be buying a Leica with a cropped sensor and a fixed, slow AF zoom lens. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianUK Posted June 4, 2013 Share #34 Posted June 4, 2013 I'm no stick-in-the-mud, although not an 'early adopter' I have and do embrace new technology if and when it suits my needs and pocket. However, the M-range deal-breakers for me would be: Loss of an optical rangefinder Loss of an optical viewfinder Loss of manual focus Plastic I believe Leica's corporate heart is in the right place re it's historic legacy and its current models. Although I am pretty ambivalent about the new M - particulary its video capabilty - but since I have no intention of buying one I can't get worked up about it. Being a Leica black and white film user I can really appreciate the MM. However, I can't get over the thought that no matter how wonderful any digital camera is, boil it all down and it is just an electronic consumer product. Somehow, they just don't have 'soul'. If and when Leica stop production of their mechanical film cameras, I know it'll be a very sad day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 4, 2013 Share #35 Posted June 4, 2013 The thing is my M9 and lenses are so good I'm never going break the deal. The deal is already done. But I really hope they don't go too far down the luxury good path. I can see why they do it, but I hope it stays at a finely balanced amount and doesn't tip over into wank factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2013 Share #36 Posted June 7, 2013 For me if Leica got rid of the trad split image rangefinder and used a EVF...that would be a big one. If Leica got rid of the shutter speed dial on top and used a wheel like a dslr. If Leica made the cam as complex as the Fuji X-Pro. If they raise their prices much more. What about you? Price. The price increases have been crazy in recent times. Fortunatly I have most things I want / need /or can afford. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted June 7, 2013 Share #37 Posted June 7, 2013 I hope it stays at a finely balanced amount and doesn't tip over into wank factor. I think Leica as a brand (and some of the products) has already tipped over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted June 7, 2013 Share #38 Posted June 7, 2013 the M9 and the Monochrom were likely the last Leicas I will be interested in. I really don't have any interest in the M240 at all.....and their new Mini M is likely to be a waste. Never cared for the X1/X2 point and shoot type affairs. Hopefully there will be enough supply of M8/M9/Monochromes to keep me entertained for many more years......and also the wonderful stuff that Ricoh makes. Oh and my M5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 8, 2013 Share #39 Posted June 8, 2013 Price. The price increases have been crazy in recent times. Fortunatly I have most things I want / need /or can afford.Brian Ah -- the good old times with Leica teetering on the brink of bankruptcy all the time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2013 Share #40 Posted June 8, 2013 Ah -- the good old times with Leica teetering on the brink of bankruptcy all the time... I agree,lets hope those days are gone and people keep buying and selling things they don,t need / want. BrianP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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