pgk Posted June 21, 2013 Share #2181 Posted June 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... I'd like to see some MTF data for both lenses. The problem here is that the lens MTF data really needs to be cascaded with the sensor MTF data, but given that the X-Vario can only use one sensor, this is unfortunately never going to be a particularly useful comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Hi pgk, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
onceuponatime Posted June 21, 2013 Share #2182 Posted June 21, 2013 Ok i really really liked the natural clarity & sharpness and grain of my digilux2 b&w iso400 low light, night. If at 70mm f6.4 iso3200 1/60-1/100 low light, night Xvario has that kind of natural clarity & sharpness and grain then it will do for me. But boy oh boy i sure wish it had the evf built in, shooting a leica without a built in viewfinder is just .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 21, 2013 Share #2183 Posted June 21, 2013 Ok i really really liked the natural clarity & sharpness and grain of my digilux2 b&w iso400 low light, night.If at 70mm f6.4 iso3200 1/60-1/100 low light, night Xvario has that kind of natural clarity & sharpness and grain then it will do for me. But boy oh boy i sure wish it had the evf built in, shooting a leica without a built in viewfinder is just .... There is much to be appreciated about accessory rather than built-in EVFs eg the new Olympus VF-4 promises to be very much better than the VF-2 ... and within 18 months there could well be an even better VF-?. And Leica's optional EVFs enable them to offer system homogeneity (same EVF in X2, Vario X and M 240) which can also keep pace with future EVF developments. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsh Posted June 21, 2013 Share #2184 Posted June 21, 2013 I TOTALLY AGREE THAT THE X VARIO IS BETTER W/O THE BUILT IN EVF FOR THE ABOVE REASONS IN DUNK'S POST!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 21, 2013 Share #2185 Posted June 21, 2013 What did you say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 21, 2013 Share #2186 Posted June 21, 2013 That didn't take long... oo look - interchangeable lenses... http://www.fujirumors.com/hot-first-images-of-the-new-fuji-x-m1/ Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceuponatime Posted June 22, 2013 Share #2187 Posted June 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is much to be appreciated about accessory rather than built-in EVFs eg the new Olympus VF-4 promises to be very much better than the VF-2 ... and within 18 months there could well be an even better VF-?. And Leica's optional EVFs enable them to offer system homogeneity (same EVF in X2, Vario X and M 240) which can also keep pace with future EVF developments. dunk When the primary is not available, then we have to make do with secondary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 22, 2013 Share #2188 Posted June 22, 2013 That didn't take long... oo look - interchangeable lenses... Hot! First images of the new Fuji X-M1!!! | Fuji Rumors Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy .....so that would make the VX instantly obsolete and a camera shop "shelf queen" :) Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 22, 2013 Share #2189 Posted June 22, 2013 Well, the comments match the XV threads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceuponatime Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2190 Posted June 23, 2013 Leica ability to make the best consumer manual focus lenses is a known. Unknow is Leica's ability, resources, r&d to make a fast small zoom autofocus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2191 Posted June 23, 2013 Leica ability to make the best consumer manual focus lenses is a known. Unknow is Leica's ability, resources, r&d to make a fast small zoom autofocus. Please investigate Leica's abilities to make some of the finest manual focus zoom lenses ever offered by any manufacturer plus several very fine autofocus 4/3 lenses before making such sweeping and unfounded generalisations. I personally own and use several of same. Furthermore, Leica's 'resources' include zoom lens design expertise which can more than match anything offered by Far East manufacturers. For information about the manual focus zoom lenses designed and manufactured solely by Leica please refer to the Leica Pocket Book - 7th and 8th editions. For information about the AF zoom lenses, Google 'Leica AF four thirds zoom lens reviews' and check out the 14-50mm and 14-150mm types ... there are two of the former one of which has an f2.8 max aperture ... and one of the latter. When Leica incorporated the tripod foot into the M240 camera system it was partly to enable the use of the existing very high quality Leica 'R' zoom lenses - and also to provide an ergonomic platform for future lens designs which will inevitably include additional 'mirrorless' zoom lenses. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2192 Posted June 23, 2013 dk, Leica made a 14-150mm f/2.8 (that cover full frame)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2193 Posted June 23, 2013 Would be a monster lens then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2194 Posted June 23, 2013 dk,Leica made a 14-150mm f/2.8 (that cover full frame)? No ... I did not state the 14-150mm is f2.8 or FF ... one of the 4/3 format 14-50mm lenses mentioned is f2.8-3.5 (Leica OEM lens for the Digilux 3) ; the other is 14-50mm f3.5-5.6. The 14-150mm ASPH MEGA OIS lens is f3.5-5.6 ... each of the lenses is 4/3 format. One London dealer is currently listing a secondhand 4/3 format Leica D Vario-Elmar 14-150mm (FF equivalent 28-300mm) - they're quite sought after. This is not the example offered by the dealer - but reflects the original new price. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! dunk Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! dunk ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2356593'>More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2195 Posted June 23, 2013 How is it that Leica can make a complex zoom lens for this price when even their most basic M prime lens costs more? I think a lot of discussion about what is the best camera lens or image quality is splitting hairs for no practical reason. A few days ago I shot some pictures to link to a question I had for a manufacturer. I used my cell phone handheld and a fluorescent table lamp for this. The results speak for themselves and this camera will obviously do for many situations. (Image is scaled down a lot from the original but no other editing was done.) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2356620'>More sharing options...
wattsy Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2196 Posted June 23, 2013 How is it that Leica can make a complex zoom lens for this price when even their most basic M prime lens costs more? Because they almost certainly do not make the former. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2197 Posted June 23, 2013 How is it that Leica can make a complex zoom lens for this price when even their most basic M prime lens costs more? Good question ... It's a Leica designed lens but made by Panasonic in Japan ... it probably cost more than £999 ; this secondhand example has two tickets - the other states £1059 and that was probably the original secondhand price (not the new price as incorrectly stated) ... so it was reduced to £999. It's always been a scarce lens. Leica R zoom lenses manufactured in Germany were more expensive eg the 28-90mm Vario Elmarit f2.8-4.5 made in 2003-2009 sold for approx £2250 IIRC dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2198 Posted June 23, 2013 How is it that Leica can make a complex zoom lens for this price when even their most basic M prime lens costs more? I think a lot of discussion about what is the best camera lens or image quality is splitting hairs for no practical reason. A few days ago I shot some pictures to link to a question I had for a manufacturer. I used my cell phone handheld and a fluorescent table lamp for this. The results speak for themselves and this camera will obviously do for many situations. (Image is scaled down a lot from the original but no other editing was done.) All images can look good as forum or Email illustrations but try making eg an exhibition 20x16 print from a camera phone image. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2199 Posted June 23, 2013 All images can look good as forum or Email illustrations but try making eg an exhibition 20x16 print from a camera phone image. dunk I think you are missing the point entirely which is the primary use is generally not very demanding. The cell phone camera is surprisingly good and at 8MP serves many useful purposes including prints. But I suspect few prints are made from cell phone images. I have a lot nice 8x10 prints made from my old 2MP Olympus camera's images. The extra DOF on close-up shots by using such a short lens may be an advantage too. Somehow this tiny cheap lens has excellent resolving power and the image processing, white balance, exposure, etc. is surprisingly good. My point being, getting good photos with all kinds of "cameras" is pretty easy today. I'm sure the X Vario can produce nice large prints.The idea that many people will buy an X Vario primarily to get the best 20x16 prints possible does not seem very likely to me. If that is their main concern why wouldn't they use something better? However it will serve that purpose for a few no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 23, 2013 Share #2200 Posted June 23, 2013 Because they almost certainly do not make the former. Bingo. So by definition, other manufacturers can produce "Leica quality" if Leica puts the Leica name on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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