dwbell Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1841 Posted June 12, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The FB lemmings are suffering from the same hysteria. dunk The simplest and most obvious explanation is usually the right one in my experience. Either; a) there's a psychological phenomenon occurring whereby relativey large numbers of unrelated people feel the need to flock to various forums etc to "join the gang" in bashing a newly announced camera, so as to feel they belong. Or it's a pretty underwhelming camera and they expected more from Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chrismuc Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1842 Posted June 12, 2013 You are looking for a compact APS-C 16MP mirrorless camera with excellent IQ: Either take a Fuji X-E1 with 18-55f2.8-4 zoom for about EUR 1000 and you get: - relatively large 18-55mm zoom range - fast f2.8-4 aperture - integrated EVF - changeable lens mount with optional great fast lenses and other zooms - image stabilization Or choose the Leica X-Vario for EUR 2400 and you get: - small 18-46mm zoom range - slow f3.5-6.3 aperture - no EVF - no changeable lens mount - no image stabilization Sorry, who would probably buy such a camera? Who is the target customer? The only one I could image must be rich AND dump. And if Oskar Barnack would know they even brand it "M", he would fire the whole Leica management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1843 Posted June 12, 2013 1... Made in Germany. Was it ever going to be cheap? 2... I love it. Great for when you don't want to carry your M and the associated paraphernalia. 3... Fantastic layout of the controls. No one does it better than Leica. 4... Did I mention it's Made in Germany??? And it looks like a Leica should. I'm ordering one so put me in the "rich AND dumb list" (dump lols...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1844 Posted June 12, 2013 Sorry, who would probably buy such a camera? Who is the target customer? It must have been clear to Leica that they would be under-performing (in comparison with the opposition) and over pricing relative to its performance with this camera, so given they know their customers it doesn't say much for the way they think about us. The biggest laugh is the way Leica use the trendy 'X' in its title, believing I suppose that it puts it on the same bus as the opposition, rather than arriving breathless at the bus stop as the coach with the Fuji and Sony teams on board pulls away. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1845 Posted June 12, 2013 "under-performing" ... Really? Have you used one yet? Leica have never tried to follow the crowd so they're on a different "bus". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1846 Posted June 12, 2013 Of the 226 comments now posted on fb well over 90% are still negative, many strongly critical of the camera and the company. There are 1000+ "Likes" but it is hard to gauge those in relation to the comments, which take more time and effort. This is something I have often observed on Facebook when controversial issues are involved. There is no real debate, no exchange of arguments (Facebook isn’t really suited for this), rather those supporting an issue click ‘Like’ and those against it post snarky comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1847 Posted June 12, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) "under-performing" ... Really? Have you used one yet? Leica have never tried to follow the crowd so they're on a different "bus". I'm not sure you can say that, across the board. The S doesn't follow the crowd, and the M certainly doesn't - both to their credit. But the rebranded Panasonic's? Surely you can't follow the crowd any more than taking the crowd and putting your badge round their neck? This time they tried to go alone, which you can give them credit for. But in todays compact world perhaps they're just not able to keep up. Not a disparaging remark but seriously, it's so competitive at the moment. Image what the next Sony RX will have to be to BETTER the RX1! Imagine the X Pro Two which has to be better than the XP1, at least as good as the X100s' improvements and better still! Maybe you need to be a tech giant with all the resources that implies to even play on the same field? Perhaps Leica are testing the water with this Vario X. Do we have to "keep up" or can we 'get away' with our brand and some solid performing, if slow, glass? If the answer is yes, and this product range can sell well and fund the less profitable (by comparison to the PanaLeica's - I"m guessing) M and S range then everyone's happy. If the answer is no then the R&D pool for our beloved M and S cameras dries up and Leica may have to look to a stronger partnership with Panasonic or A N Other company to keep on the same technology field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1848 Posted June 12, 2013 For a smaller pocket travel camera, I would think that the D-Lux 6 with its much faster and wider range zoom lens would meet my requirements better. Its size is much more suited for pockets than the Vario X, which is a mid size camera. Sensors are improving so rapidly, that the smaller sensor is not the disadvantage that it used to be. I showed the Vario to my wife, who currently uses a V-Lux 30 and she said: "far too big for my requirements and the zoom is too short." I do usually carry a mid size camera as a back up on long trips, for certain parts of which I either want a lighter or lower value camera than one of my M's. I currently use an Olympus EP-2, on which I can also mount my M and R lenses. I was hoping to upgrade to a Paula but now having seen the specs, I will upgrade to an Olympus EP-5, with the VF-4, in the hope that eventually this will become usable on the M240. I will get my daughter to bring one over from the US, when she comes to visit me in France in August. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucklik Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1849 Posted June 12, 2013 For a smaller pocket travel camera, I would think that the D-Lux 6 with its much faster and wider range zoom lens would meet my requirements better. Its size is much more suited for pockets than the Vario X Compare the DLux 6 with the Vario X DLux 6 lens is 2 stops wider Angle 24-90 compared to 28-70 Image stabilisation (works very wel on my Dlux5 at least 2-3 stops) When you count 2 stops for IS and 2 stops for the aperture you can shoot the DLux 6 at 100 ISO White you would need 1600 on the Vario for the same image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1850 Posted June 12, 2013 Now that the size shape and basic specifications of Paula have been revealed, I shall resume taking pictures with my current Leica kit, with much satisfaction and pleasure. I do not denigrate or envy those stirred by the excitement of impending new models, but if I was to be tempted it would be at the expense of the time I can spare to use established working paid-for high performance equipment. There is a limit to the number of cameras and lenses I can sensibly use and enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1851 Posted June 12, 2013 I am not forcing anyone. In fact, it appears to be happening autonomously... It's always more or less the same on the net including the LUF sometimes. When a new cam is launched, people complain that it is over priced, then they find it less bad when viewing the first pics and they finally complain that they wait too long to find one at a dealer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1852 Posted June 12, 2013 This is something I have often observed on Facebook when controversial issues are involved. There is no real debate, no exchange of arguments (Facebook isn’t really suited for this), rather those supporting an issue click ‘Like’ and those against it post snarky comments. That has not been my experience and in fact I often see lively debate in the comments section. But regardless that doesnt change the fact that the comments on numerous online reviews are showing a similar trend toward overwhelming disappointment leaning toward outrage in many cases. I for one do not feel it is in any way disloyal to Leica in expressing my disappointment in the product and anger at the piss poor marketing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1853 Posted June 12, 2013 I find an M9 with a small lens attached pretty-much universally portable, at least to the extent that my need for the sort of Mini-M many of us were hoping for is really not very pressing in real life. I too was hoping for a small M-mount body but I know it was my gear-fetish rather than any genuine need that was driving me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papimuzo Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1854 Posted June 12, 2013 OK, we have understood, (1600 posts at least) Leica made a dumb product. Moderators, Isn't it the time to close this thread?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1855 Posted June 12, 2013 Slow lens aside and AF speed aside, the X Vario is up to spec with its contemporaries. And all of the people who are asking for an ILC with autofocus are not thinking about what Leica said before the release of the M240: that they do not have the resources to commit to three lens lines, and will concentrate on the M and S lines instead. I don't like this camera any more than most of us, but given Leica's target market and allocatable resources, the X Vario isn't the worst thing that could happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1856 Posted June 12, 2013 OK, we have understood, (1600 posts at least) Leica made a dumb product. Moderators, Isn't it the time to close this thread?? rolleyes? Really? I vote moderators, keep it open to be fair. As the product filters out & real world comments come back in, I think this will offer a broader & more balanced appraisal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1857 Posted June 12, 2013 That has not been my experience and in fact I often see lively debate in the comments section. But regardless that doesnt change the fact that the comments on numerous online reviews are showing a similar trend toward overwhelming disappointment leaning toward outrage in many cases. I for one do not feel it is in any way disloyal to Leica in expressing my disappointment in the product and anger at the piss poor marketing. No, nor do I, in fact I think it's a responsibility to be honest. I've said before that I believe blind fanboyism is Leica's biggest enemy. Out of interest I just went around the web and re-looked at at the comments and reactions for when the M240 was announced. It wasn't anywhere near as polarised (negatively biased) as the VX. The biggest malcontent was the things it DID have, not those it didn't. Quite a different picture to today. Although maybe I should be looking at the reaction to the compact cam that came before the VX, what was it? The X2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1858 Posted June 12, 2013 Was This the Right Leica? | Gearophile | Thom Hogan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1859 Posted June 12, 2013 "Right after I posted this (naturally) I got the Leica Forum Newsletter confirming that yes, this is the Mini M. Except it's not—it's a Maxi X2, an APS-C fixed lens compact with a zoom. Amateur Photographer has a review. Me, I'd be looking a lot harder at the Sony RX1 for that kind of dough. But then, the Sony's lens is right for me, and others (so I hear) prefer a zoom. More likely, I'd be looking hard at a Sony RX100, history having demonstrated that I'll most likely be replacing any compact camera I have within three years or so anyway. The RX100 floats a surprisingly large number of photographers' boats. One correspondent sent a sarcastic fake announcement that said "Canon Announces Leica X Vario Killer," linking to a Canon EOS M ($549 with lens) and noting that it has "a higher-resolution LCD, longer zoom range, more megapixels on the same size sensor, faster telephoto end, interchangeable lens capability, and 1/6th the price." You do lose the EVF, but you gain interchangeable lenses and easy compatibility with Canon EF and EF-S SLR lenses. But don't write off the Leica too soon...." From The Online Photographer. The Online Photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1860 Posted June 12, 2013 Leica X Vario - Digital cameras - CNET Reviews Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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