wlaidlaw Posted March 25, 2013 Share #1 Posted March 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Good News guys - Phase One's Capture One now supports the M240 - version 7.1.1 is available for download now. I emailed them asking for a progress report this morning and they told me that 7.1.1 would be available later this afternoon. A good first effort although the colours on a Gretag Macbeth Color Checker 24 card are still a little bit out compared with the values declared on the information sheet. If you correct the WB using the white square, it actually gets pretty close. Reds are still a bit over-saturated. I will take a number of test images tomorrow to see how it stacks up against LR with built in profiles and with my own generated ones. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Capture One V.7.1.1 with M240 and MM support released. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Fgcm Posted March 25, 2013 Share #2 Posted March 25, 2013 Thanks Wilson, very kind of you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted March 25, 2013 Share #3 Posted March 25, 2013 V.7.1.1 release notes indicate preliminary support for the Monochrom as well. Now all I need is a Monochrom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knorp Posted March 25, 2013 Share #4 Posted March 25, 2013 Odd - I do find the M240 under Leica, but no trace of the M220 or M Monochrom. And what I've seen so far I'm not very exited ... All the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted March 25, 2013 Share #5 Posted March 25, 2013 Good news indeed. Thank you. But where is my M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted March 25, 2013 Odd - I do find the M240 under Leica, but no trace of the M220 or M Monochrom.And what I've seen so far I'm not very exited ... All the best. I don't see MM support either but maybe it only pops up when you load an MM file. Remember the MM file is quite different and does not work at all in DNG neutral. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 25, 2013 Share #7 Posted March 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can confirm that 7.1.1 seems to work fine with Monochrom DNGs. It defaults to a "DNG File Neutral" ICC profile. Personally, I used to like C1 but have for some time migrated to a Bridge/Photoshop/ACR workflow and can't see myself going back to C1 (or Lightroom for that matter). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salander Posted March 25, 2013 Share #8 Posted March 25, 2013 Yes! Finally! Just got my M and can't wait to play with the images in C1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photomac Posted March 25, 2013 Share #9 Posted March 25, 2013 I don't see MM support either but maybe it only pops up when you load an MM file. Remember the MM file is quite different and does not work at all in DNG neutral. Wilson When you load an MM-DNG, C1 shows "ICC-Profile: DNG File Neutral". First impressions: C1's default sharpening is way too strong. PhaseOne surely are experts in interpolation and demosaicing of CCD color filter arrays, and I like the way C1 renders my M9 files. But with MM-DNGs no interpolation is needed. With Monochrom files it comes down to how the converter handles exposure, contrast and tonal rendition. So far I find LR easier to achieve a pleasing result, especially because you can dial in negative values for highlights, shadows and blacks. But I have to play some more time with C1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted March 26, 2013 I can confirm that 7.1.1 seems to work fine with Monochrom DNGs. It defaults to a "DNG File Neutral" ICC profile. Personally, I used to like C1 but have for some time migrated to a Bridge/Photoshop/ACR workflow and can't see myself going back to C1 (or Lightroom for that matter). Ian, Thanks for that update. They obviously have changed something as I think it was either Jono or Jaap that said that it would not read the files at all previously. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nggalai Posted March 26, 2013 Share #11 Posted March 26, 2013 Ian, Thanks for that update. They obviously have changed something as I think it was either Jono or Jaap that said that it would not read the files at all previously. Wilson CaptureOne’s support for true black-and-white files up to and including 7.1 was pretty much non-existant. They had a built-in workaround for their old Achromatic back, but that was about it. CaptureOne was RGB and Bayer sensor centric. Seems with the advent of their new IQ2 Achromatic they decided to finally implement some proper support for files not needing demosaicing. To wit, the release notes also state “DNG Linear (preliminary)” for newly supported file types. The term “Linear DNG” is a misleading one; it pretty much means already-demosaiced files, or “pixel DNG”, i.e. no Bayer transformation necessary or even possible. And as both the Monochrom and the Achromatic don’t feature a Bayer filter, the ability to circumvent demosaicing inside the processing pipeline is a must for Capture One to be able to open such black-and-white RAW files. My guess: Monochrom support came as a nice side effect and wasn’t high up on their list of priorities. Phase One stated time and again Monochrom support was coming, but seems they wanted to kill two birds with one stone. Fine by me; perhaps VueScan’s black-and-white DNG will finally open up in Capture One as well … Cheers, -Sascha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 26, 2013 Share #12 Posted March 26, 2013 Good News guys - Phase One's Capture One now supports the M240 - version 7.1.1 is available for download now. I emailed them asking for a progress report this morning and they told me that 7.1.1 would be available later this afternoon. A good first effort although the colours on a Gretag Macbeth Color Checker 24 card are still a little bit out compared with the values declared on the information sheet. If you correct the WB using the white square, it actually gets pretty close. Reds are still a bit over-saturated. Wilson, AFAIK the support in 7.1.1, which is listed as M(240) (preliminary), is the same as was available a few weeks ago in 7.1.0. I have installed 7.1.1 and looked at my collection of borrowed M240 .dnf files. They look just the same as the .jpg's that I made from a while ago using 7.1.0. So I think there is still work to be done, and this is not the last word from PhaseOne on M support. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted March 26, 2013 Wilson, AFAIK the support in 7.1.1, which is listed as M(240) (preliminary), is the same as was available a few weeks ago in 7.1.0. I have installed 7.1.1 and looked at my collection of borrowed M240 .dnf files. They look just the same as the .jpg's that I made from a while ago using 7.1.0. So I think there is still work to be done, and this is not the last word from PhaseOne on M support. scott Scott, I was running 7.1 prior to yesterday, so I am not sure if that was the same as 7.1.0. V. 7.1 certainly did not have 240 support or profiles and from my conversations with Phase One yesterday morning, until the release of yesterday afternoon, they said they did not support the M240. If you apply the M240 profile to a CC24 swatch chart, the numbers are definitely different to those of the DNG neutral, which is what came up before, when you loaded an M240 file. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 26, 2013 Share #14 Posted March 26, 2013 From what I can tell, C-1 is the best software at getting detail out of areas that are affected by moire. I previously posted these. - message 71 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/275508-new-leica-m-vs-m9-daylight-4.html#post2343341 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 26, 2013 Share #15 Posted March 26, 2013 6.4.3 takes Monochrom files now as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 26, 2013 Share #16 Posted March 26, 2013 Scott, I was running 7.1 prior to yesterday, so I am not sure if that was the same as 7.1.0. V. 7.1 certainly did not have 240 support or profiles and from my conversations with Phase One yesterday morning, until the release of yesterday afternoon, they said they did not support the M240. If you apply the M240 profile to a CC24 swatch chart, the numbers are definitely different to those of the DNG neutral, which is what came up before, when you loaded an M240 file. Wilson I've been running 7.1 (which is the predecessor of 7.1.1) since late February. When I used it on some pre-production M240 files, it came up Generic DNG, as it still does. I was mostly running 7.1 on M9 and Olympus E-PL5 files. The E-PL5 is also in the preliminary support stage in both 7.1 and 7.1.1. The release notes do say that there is preliminary support for the M240, but I couldn't see the difference in the files on screen. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share #17 Posted March 26, 2013 Scott, Let me quote you some numbers. I have taken a Gretag Macbeth CC24 chart. The top left mid brown with DNG neutral profile is R89 G58 B55 Gy70. With M240 profile R111 G44 B49 Gy65. I think the reds are quite a bit too strong in this initial profile and I will be reporting that back to P1. It is all a bit OTT Kodachrome. However I understand that DR should be improved as they have now set black and white points, which were not set in the DNG neutral profile. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 27, 2013 Share #18 Posted March 27, 2013 Previously I had been getting the generic DNG translation that I was using in the previous release. But I looked in "all profiles" and there it was. You are correct that it should be presently be considered a place-holder while they work on the color palette. It is way too red. I could post a picture but it is pretty awful, and that might not be a constructive thing to do at this early stage. scott PS: I've tried a few more files, comparing the neutral dng profile with the Leica M240 generic. I find neutral is too pale, the new M240 profile is too warm. The first file I had looked at had exaggerated reddish skin tones, but this seems to be true in general. I'll send in some examples and say no more. I can get reasonable output from either profile but with a little work required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share #19 Posted March 27, 2013 Previously I had been getting the generic DNG translation that I was using in the previous release. But I looked in "all profiles" and there it was. You are correct that it should be presently be considered a place-holder while they work on the color palette. It is way too red. I could post a picture but it is pretty awful, and that might not be a constructive thing to do at this early stage. scott PS: I've tried a few more files, comparing the neutral dng profile with the Leica M240 generic. I find neutral is too pale, the new M240 profile is too warm. The first file I had looked at had exaggerated reddish skin tones, but this seems to be true in general. I'll send in some examples and say no more. I can get reasonable output from either profile but with a little work required. Scott, My experience with Phase One is that they are very responsive and really do listen to their customers. I would not be at all surprised to see an improved profile soon. I will be sending them a CC24 file at M240 Profile with a copy of the correct target values, after the new firmware comes out, hopefully tomorrow. The Gretag Macbeth target values for that mid brown are R 115 G 82 B 68. When I correct the brightness to set the red at 115, the values of the M240 profile are R 115 G 45 B 50, so as you say relative to green and blue, the red is much too strong. The strange thing is that when you come to the greens, the reds are not strong enough. Something a bit strange going on here. I set the white balance to daylight fixed on the camera. When I take the next set. I might use my Expodisc to set a white balance or just enter in a fixed number taken off my ancient Gossen Sixti colour meter but I am not sure how accurate it is now. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 27, 2013 Share #20 Posted March 27, 2013 It isn't too hard to adjust some images in C1 and use that info to make your own custom camera profiles and presets. Camera profiles are only starting off points for various "looks" and waiting for C1 to make a new one might not be worth it if it turns out not to be what you generally prefer for you basic look anyway. I think of C1 as an advanced tool and I feel other users should understand that asking it to do a "quick fix" on your images may be OK but it really under-utilizes its capabilities. Keep in mind that when they talk about shooting to a specific profile when tethered, that is not the only way to do this. You can simply highlight a group of images and then click on that profile to assign it to them. "Creating an ICC profile can often come in useful, for instance, when photographing food that you want to appear more colorful than it does in reality. Here it is best to use the Color Editor to tweak the colors and save the result as an ICC profile; then then next the next time you capture food (tethered), just select the desired food ICC profile and correct the colors directly as you shoot. " Color edits as ICC profiles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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