Struggling to fall in love with the M9

[Bo_Lorentzen]

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Bob,

 

Pretty sure I said so before, but just in case, I LOVE the images on your website. Nothing wrong with your vision and execution.

 

To be perfectly honest, I hated Rangefinders because my photo-teacher forced me to use one, and then I used them in the eighties, and was not happy because I wanted better cameras. Soo I focused on my Pentax MX and LX for work and then moved to the F4 and then all the way digital, those cameras paid my rent since I was about 20, so nothing wrong with those.

 

Did not really look at rangefinders since the early nineties, until about 2 years ago when I picked up a M6, thinking ahh I used to use something like that... I stuffed a couple of rolls through it and as much as I disliked them before, it was like coming home. Now I really enjoy using a rangefinder. (but their use were beaten into me by a pain in tha a** photo-teacher who really did know what he was doing)

 

The kicker is, I have not abandoned my dSLR's and I am not going to, there is simply too many paying jobs which is best done with a SLR vs a Rangefinder. The one is not wrong or better than the other, they are different, but there is a more meditative quality to useing the M at least in my experience.

 

Ian mentioned flying, auto vs stick and rudder, that is probably true, but if one are going 2000 miles there are something to be said for auto-pilot. ;-) landings get better once you figure the flare out.

 

The thing is as everybody says here, you gotta burn a bunch of frames before the M cameras become second nature. once you get them dialed in there are some seriously beautiful RAW files to play with. two years ago I was totally annoyed by focusing the wrong way on people walking the street, somehow my hand have finally gotten the muscle memory thing and moves the right direction based on the split image. but in the beginning it was a matte of always pushing to infinity and then pull in the focus. Im glad I got the habits down 20 years ago, otherwise I might have tossed that M9 out the window.

 

One thing I -REALLY- miss, is real photo-clubs, when I was 16 I spend a evening each week when I could with a bunch of guys like Lars and Ivan in a photo-club, they broke so many bad habits and helped me more than anybody else ever have. If you have a chance spend some time with a old geezer who shoot M cameras, chances are he will dial out a bunch of problems in about 30 minutes for the cost of a cup of coffee.

 

.

[noah_addis]

Thanks everyone for your comments so far.

 

Hi Noah.

 

Here's my moan list....

 

I find the camera digs in to my nerve under my eyebrow. (I have discussed this before - just my anatomy I guess)

Screen is rubbish.

Processing is slooooooooooooooow.

Needs add ons to give a secure grip and they spoil the look.

It's a dust magnet. (sensor)

It's easily confused if you press a few buttons too fast.

The 'enter' button should be in the middle of the cursor buttons (there's even a place for it)

ISO performance is nothing special.

Shutter button feels gritty.

Battery life is poor.

Metering is poor.

Red edge problem.

Auto WB is poor.

Don't like the feel of the selector wheel.

 

Other than that it's great

 

B

 

Well, I guess I'd have to agree with all, or nearly all, of your complaints. (The camera doesn't dig into any nerves for me and my shutter button feels decent--not as silky as an MP but not gritty either). Perhaps the shutter could be improved by Leica service. As for your nerve you're on you're own:rolleyes:.

 

The processing is deadly slow, the red edge is a real problem, and the high-ISO capability doesn't match the D3 to be sure.

 

Speaking for myself, I like rangefinders so much more than SLRs that I put up with these things. No, it's not ideal and yes, if anyone else comes up with a better full-frame DRF I'll be first in line to try it out.

 

None of your complaints seem to have much to do with the actual rangefinder experience. I guess what you need to decide, and I'd advise you give it some time, is if you like the rangefinder system enough to make up for the problems you mentioned.

 

Some of those problems should be fixed. The red edge, processing speed and maybe some other things will hopefully be fixed in firmware.

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[rickp13]

Hi Rik.

 

Many thanks for your very kind words too.

 

Just click any image to view the next one in that gallery.

When you open a gallery there is a slideshow option top left.

 

thanks, bob

my mistake - i opened "all works" only, where there isn't a slideshow option. i'm navigating well now.

btw, i can't wait to see a future "m9" section on your site.

cheers

rick

[cheewai_m6]

it definitely takes time to learn a leica. i remember when i first got my m6, i was so disappointed with my photos. i couldn't compose as well as i could on an slr. as weird as that sounds, that's what happened. i think because you don't look through the lens, you don't get to see exactly the perspective of the shot. but as time went on, i don't know why, i got better and better. i'm not a master photographer that's for sure, but i'm actually happy with what i'm taking.

 

the more time you spend with it, the more you think in the rangefinder way. i never had a problem with manual controls cause i always had full manual slrs.

 

having said that, rangerfinders and leicas aren't for everyone. it could possibly be that you're one of those who just don't like them. but i would say the more time you spend with it, unfortunately you can't go outside with it at the moment, the more you'll get to know it and how to shoot with it. whether you'll end up loving it, depends on whether you end up loving it.

[gib_robinson]

Bob,

 

I'm sorry to hear you had to sell your D3. It means you've given yourself an extraordinary challenge without an exit. Perhaps you knew what you were doing; perhaps not. But there you are. No exit.

 

And as I look at the images on your website I see many that would be difficult to duplicate with an M. You clearly have a good eye; not just for light but for the expression on the faces you photograph. An SLR give you an intense, intimate connection with faces; that's all you can see through the viewfinder when you're close up. The M9 won't give you that narrowed perspective. Shooting with it is an entirely different experience. It's like moving to a country with a different language. Both languages can be extremely expressive and learning the RF language may give you a new way to see your photography. I hope so.

 

I love both my SLR and my M8 (soon to be M9). I've used M cameras all my adult life; SLR's more recently.

 

I suspect you will continue to agonize. But the rangefinder way of seeing is as at least as rich as the SLR way of seeing. Just very different.

 

Best wishes,

 

--Gib

[snajczuk]

It's early days yet and I haven't had much chance to use the M9 due to many issues. I've taken a few hundred shots.

 

I moved from a Nikon D3 and I have to say, at this moment in time, I'm regretting it. I will give it more time, but, as of today, the only redeeming features I can find with this camera are its size, weight and simplicity. I don't want to start listing the negatives as, after such an investment of the body a 3 new lenses, I really, really want to like it.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Please help me to love it.

 

Cheers

Bob

 

I too moved from the D3 to the M9 several weeks ago for some of the reasons you list above. Before the M9 I used only Nikon for 15 years. It was a struggle at first and I found myself questioning whether I had made the right decision. Once I got the hang of the focusing and metering and had a chance to print some of my photos, I was hooked. Give it a little more time before making your final decision. I think you will feel good about your decision as you become more familiar with your camera. Good luck!

[Nikkor AIS]

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Taken with Lecia M7 and 28 1.9 Voigtlander on XP2 film

 

 

Taken with Nikkor 28 1.4 AF D on a Nikon D3

 

Hey Bob, For me as a long time Nikon shooter I find that the Lecia M system ( for me film because I cant find a M9) is a great companion to my Nikon D3. I got a M3 to tie me over untill I could get M9 and now well I got three film bodies and 5 lenses for M system. Do I still want a M9:D. Yes, would I give up one of my D3 and some glass to get a M9 . Yes, but not my second D3 and not all my Nikkor glass. If I where you I would suggest In suggest getting a Leica M3, M6 and getting back another D3. You than no problems with red edge ...OO. That way your still shooting with lecia and I get your M9;). Kind of joking, but willing to trade your serious.

 

Gregory

[menos I M6]

It's early days yet and I haven't had much chance to use the M9 due to many issues. I've taken a few hundred shots.

 

I moved from a Nikon D3 and I have to say, at this moment in time, I'm regretting it. I will give it more time, but, as of today, the only redeeming features I can find with this camera are its size, weight and simplicity. I don't want to start listing the negatives as, after such an investment of the body a 3 new lenses, I really, really want to like it.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Please help me to love it.

 

Cheers

Bob

 

Bob, I didn't read all of the answers here, but there is one thing, you really badly need now:

 

Take some time with shooting the new camera system!

I mean SHOOTING as in using! Don't do much focus testing, technical pixel peeping and alike.

 

Go out and shoot! Use the camera first on sitting targets until you get more comfortable with the different approach than with the D3.

Shoot many, many photographs and process them with the same procedures as your Nikon files.

 

This way, you grow into using the camera (exposure, focus) and you will learn the immense differences in quality from the digital files and especially the Leica glass.

 

I have been using a Nikon D300 and D3 with some fine glass until I bought a Leica M6 (I was too chicken for spending 10.000 into unknown terretory ;-) ).

 

It took a few weeks of tour de force of getting used to expose and focus with a at first very uncomfortable camera.

It took a few weeks more, that I didn't use my Nikon DSLRs anymore.

A few more weeks and I cleared out my DSLR gear, selling almost all glass and the D300.

 

I bought more Leica glass and now an additional M8.2.

 

I rarely use the D3 anymore. When I use it, I need some time, to get accustomed to the awkward handling, size, weight and automatic functions.

 

Don't force it now - you cannot force to like it because it was expensive.

It will grow to you by itself in time.

After mainly using rangefinders now, I made some setting changes to the D3, to have an easier transition between the two systems:

 

- shoot only with center weighted metering

- disable Auto ISO

- change exposure setting to half stops

- change shutter release button to lock exposure value (aperture priority mode only), but NOT focus

- use focus button to start auto focus only

 

Maybe changing these settings on your D3 can make the transition easier for you.

 

Good luck and enjoy the journey ;-)

[chris_tribble]

Bob - looking at some of the beautiful images on your website I fear you may be doomed to on-going disappointment. In my experience M cameras are not the best tools for tracking fast moving whippets or for long lens shots of white water canoeing. I also notice that you've only got one image in your street photography section + a lot of your people shots have the signature you get from large aperture 200mm or longer lenses... I think you probably need a D3 to keep in touch (quite literally) with a lot of the subjects you like to photograph, and see the M9 as a way of extending your range into areas which aren't so accessible with the Nikon. For a lot of people on this forum range finder has become their primary mode. Me, I mix and match as the assignment demands, continuing to invest in Canon glass and 5 series bodies (I have the 5D and 5D mk 2 + L series lenses from 16-35 2.8 through to 300mm f2.8) AND 2 M9's + half a dozen lenses. This makes possible projects like this: King's Place - community outreach programme which were all Leica, and projects like this: Teatr Polski: A winter's tale, or this Jan Garbarek Group which use long lenses on the DSLR and wide on the Leica.

 

I completely agree with others that there's a learning curve you have to climb when you're new to RF cameras + that there are some limitations on the M9 which require a software fix (which I'm confident will come). But the fundamental differences between RF and SLR remain - which is why SLRs swept the board for fashion, reportage and sports in the 60s...

 

Best of luck with your endeavours - I look forward to seeing new and contrasting work on your website with the RF camera.

[jaapv]

That is a very valid post, Chris. I can only confirm that it is rather limiting to use just an RF system on its own. I have a DMR to match the M system, which is fine for wildlife, but it is quite clear that for fast-moving sports etc. a modern autofocus offers a convenience that cannot be beat. Of course there are historical workarounds that extend an M camera into SLR territory, with application and the right add-ons it is possible to use an M9 as a universal camera, after all there was great photography before the SLRs made their break-through. But no one in his right mind would call it practical in these days.

Bob, looking, like the others, at you excellent work it appears to me that an M camera can only be an auxilary to your photography, unless you are contemplating a complete switch in style.

[scalleia]

Well I don't normally contribute to these type of discussions (nothing against them I just don't normally get involved), but I thought I would add my 2 cents worth.

 

I recently went to an M9 after years of dSLR (latest a Canon 1dMKIII and 5D MkII), and I have to say I absolutely love it.

 

Firstly I love the actual camera, its size, its look and even its smell in a good Luigi case. I just like touching it, using it. It's simple and I love that. I also love manual focussing and in reality it's pretty easy to get a good focus even on moving subjects at large apertures.

 

Secondly I love it's output. The files it creates through a good lens are just beautiful. I have a Canon 50 1.2L which I really like BUT it just doesn't compare to the 50 'Lux.

 

Finally I can fit a very comprehensive kit - body with a 35 'Lux attached, a 50 Lux, a 90 Cron and a Zeiss 21 with viewer, a few filters, spare battery and some other bits and pieces all in a beautifully made Fogg bag the size of a small sized ladies hand bag.

 

Sure it isn't perfect and won't replace a dSLR for some activities. I would never use it for my surfing or kiting shots for example but how often do I really want to lug a 1DMKIII with zoom around for.

 

In ending I really hope that you start to enjoy your M9 Bob and I am sure with perseverance you will get some great results. And if not then I don't think you'll have any problems selling it, I hear that there are still some pretty large queues.

 

PS You have some truly great images on your site.

Edited February 10, 2010 by scalleia

[TacTZilla]

Many thanks to you all once more for your comments and advice.

 

Just to clear a few things up....

 

I don't have the D3 any more. I simply could not afford to do that. I really went out on a limb to buy the M9 and 3 lenses. I'm glad I did and I haven't come to any conclusions yet as I know I haven't given it a fair chance yet.

 

I used to do a lot of sports and action stuff with the D3, but towards the end of my time with it found I was mainly using the 50mm F/1.4 lens. (even the majority of the canoeing shots were 50mm) I just started getting interested in street photography and the D3 was overkill. There isn't much on my website in the 'street' section yet as I intended filling it with images from the M9. On my first trip out I was arrested and I don't feel able to go out with my camera until this matter is resolved. I can't risk it happening again at this time. It was an unlawful arrest BTW.

 

I think that once I get back out there and get plenty of shots under my belt I'll be better placed to make a decision.

 

I'm not meaning to compare the M9 to the D3 as I know there are opposite ends of the spectrum. I know I can sell it and swap back any time, but that wouldn't be a challenge. I know that the M9 can only make me a better photographer in the long run, even if I was to eventually part with it, so I'm not worried.

 

I guess that part of the issues if my frustration in not being able to get out and shoot in the street.

 

Thanks for all the input.

 

Regards

B

[cliffp]

You've probably seen that Nikon has brought out a new 24mm F1.4 lens and 16-35 zoom? I am not trying to tempt you back to Nikon - I like you sold my Nikon gear, but its nice to see what the opposition have to offer in case I get fed with Leica (my new M9 has had to go back for RF alignment). BTW I am no where near that point yet. I love the Leica m style of photography

[jerryharwood]

Unfortunately, you have come from a state of the art, MODERN DSLR, to a completely different syle of camera; I won't say it is state of the art, because it isn't, no way comparable.I have used leicas since the early 1950's, and I still use a state of the art SLR, but I do not compare them. What I do see, is the output of both; I prefer the output of my M6ttl, and My hasselblad, and also my Minolta Dynax 9- if you want state of the art electronics that work, try the last ! Digital is just totally different in output, and media style. I too had the Nikons, but sold the lot and went back to film, purely because I got fed up with the instant effects ! (Also, because of the state of redundancy that you are caught up in, with the digital world. )

You might, just might, if you persevere with the M9, like it; or you might just find it too much behind the times, in regard to reliability and USABILITY !

[jaapv]

Many thanks to you all once more for your comments and advice.

 

Just to clear a few things up....

 

I don't have the D3 any more. I simply could not afford to do that. I really went out on a limb to buy the M9 and 3 lenses. I'm glad I did and I haven't come to any conclusions yet as I know I haven't given it a fair chance yet.

 

I used to do a lot of sports and action stuff with the D3, but towards the end of my time with it found I was mainly using the 50mm F/1.4 lens. (even the majority of the canoeing shots were 50mm) I just started getting interested in street photography and the D3 was overkill. There isn't much on my website in the 'street' section yet as I intended filling it with images from the M9. On my first trip out I was arrested and I don't feel able to go out with my camera until this matter is resolved. I can't risk it happening again at this time. It was an unlawful arrest BTW.

 

I think that once I get back out there and get plenty of shots under my belt I'll be better placed to make a decision.

 

I'm not meaning to compare the M9 to the D3 as I know there are opposite ends of the spectrum. I know I can sell it and swap back any time, but that wouldn't be a challenge. I know that the M9 can only make me a better photographer in the long run, even if I was to eventually part with it, so I'm not worried.

 

I guess that part of the issues if my frustration in not being able to get out and shoot in the street.

 

Thanks for all the input.

 

Regards

B

Do as I do, never let the camera away from your side and shoot anything you fancy - it will annoy your wife, but you'll be amazed at some of the shots that materialize out of thin air.

[TacTZilla]

It's growing on me.

 

Available light....

 

 

Cheers

B

[jaapv]

Available ability

[AlbertoDeRoma]

It's growing on me.

 

Available light....

 

 

Cheers

B

 

What a GREAT picture! Wow.

 

Available ability.

 

Indeed.

 

I am really happy it's starting to grow on you.

 

Alberto

[Bo_Lorentzen]

The M9 is really good about this stuff, whenever one nail a shot, the M9 bats it out of the park.

 

.

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[Jamie Roberts]

ah,.. that's the problem with the digital Ms.... when you get it right, the combination of glass and sensor delivers the goods!!

 

I still put up with the occasional misfire on the M8 and the slowness (and sloppiness) of card writing because the results are just so damn good.

 

That's a great shot

 

I'm sure that Leica will fix the performance / write speed / write accuracy issues with the M9 (and m8?! I hope so) and then there will be even less for you to be disenchanted with... and at the same time you'll get results like this...