M8 shutter fault - get Leica to repair it for free

[AlanG]

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Alan,

 

I checked your link and look what I got for the Nikon D3

 

Nikon DSLR D3 Shutter is stuck or not functioning Repair for $102.49

 

This quote includes parts and labor costs... so 700 € seems to be a bit over priced.

 

Cheers

.

 

Yes I saw that too but I think the price must be a lot higher for a total shutter replacement in a D3. Additionally, I believe the D3 has a heavier duty shutter (more expensive?) than the M8 has.

Edited February 9, 2010 by AlanG

[pgk]

Do you SERIOUSLY expect to pay a pittance for a repair to an expensive camera? (Regardless of the cause).

 

Lets have a little realism here guys . If you want to make any sort of comparison, do at least quote Nikon or Canon's prices (I believe that they are manufacturers too).

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[AlanG]

Do you SERIOUSLY expect to pay a pittance for a repair to an expensive camera? (Regardless of the cause).

 

Lets have a little realism here guys . If you want to make any sort of comparison, do at least quote Nikon or Canon's prices (I believe that they are manufacturers too).

 

You should roll your eyes because 700 Euros ($940) is outrageous.

 

In my experience, Canon and Nikon service was quite reasonable and very fast. And Canon uses a third party for its p&s and non-pro cameras and that company did a good very quick job for me once. Maybe Leica should consider subcontracting service to companies that can do it faster, more efficiently and at reasonable prices. Many wouldn't buy an M8 or an M9 knowing the potential cost of repairs and the hassle and delay of sending the gear to Germany.

 

I have not seen a good argument for why Leica should charge a premium to replace a basic Copal shutter in a basic, although pricey camera. Does Leica offer premium service to go with the premium prices?

 

I can see how Leica expects to get away with it... I see Leica as a fairly arrogant company. But I don't think it is a good policy for Leica to see its repair service as a profit center. And if they truly are so inefficient that they have to charge so much, then something is really wrong there.

Edited February 9, 2010 by AlanG

[stunsworth]

Does Leica offer premium service to go with the premium prices?

 

Well it does include insured shipping, a 12 month warranty (not just for the shutter) and German VAT at 19%.

[AlanG]

Well it does include insured shipping, a 12 month warranty (not just for the shutter) and German VAT at 19%.

 

Do repairs from non EU countries get charged the VAT? And why is there VAT on a repair?

 

The 1 year warranty won't look so sweet if the camera breaks again after 1 1/2 years and you have to pay another $900+.

[stunsworth]

Do repairs from non EU countries get charged the VAT? And why is there VAT on a repair?

 

No, there's no VAT if you are outside the EU - the original poster is.

 

Why is there VAT? Because there is.

[stunsworth]

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You should roll your eyes because 700 Euros ($940) is outrageous.

 

I tried to find out how much Nikon or Canon charge for a shutter replacement - the above link is for a third party workshop not the original manufacturer. I came across this...

 

Repair cost: Nikon D3 - D1 / D700 Forum: Digital Photography Review

 

So for a Nikon D3 the shutter was ~ 300 USD, Labour was ~ 400 USD = 700 USD. Add on 20% to make it comparable and that's 840 USD.

 

I've no idea if shipping is extra, or if the whole camera is covered by a warranty or just the replaced shutter. In any case the costs seem comparable to what Leica are asking.

[AlanG]

No, there's no VAT if you are outside the EU - the original poster is.

 

Why is there VAT? Because there is.

 

Was the quoted 650-700 Euros inclusive of VAT? In the US prices are usually quoted before sales tax has been added. Sales tax here is on a state or city basis and rarely if ever applies to labor on repairs (only the parts are taxed.)

[stunsworth]

Was the quoted 650-700 Euros inclusive of VAT? In the US prices are usually quoted before sales tax has been added

 

The opposite applies in the EU. It would be very unusual for someone to issue a quote for work like this without including VAT in the total.

[andybarton]

It's not a "sales" tax at all. It's Value Added Tax, and is payable on any good or service. Including servicing Leica shutters. The service provider (in this case Leica) "add value" to something (your broken camera) and hence that service is taxable. It's what pays for free healthcare at point of need, plus a load of other things.

 

It's the difference between indirect and direct taxation and is what makes the Tax a "choice". If you don't want to pay the tax, don't have the service done.

[AlanG]

Well there aren't too many reports of what people pay to replace their shutters on Leicas, Canons or Nikons. In the link you gave, the repair was made under warranty and the price stated was not actually charged. I have a friend who has broken a number of Leica, Nikon, and Canon cameras in various ways so I'll ask him what each place charged.

 

I found this thread where a Malaysian owner paid Nikon RM1214 (US $354) to replace his D3 shutter after originally being quoted RM1798. The discussion sounds a lot like this one but people there think paying $354 is high for replacing the D3 shutter after only 79,000 pictures.

 

In another post on that thread, Canon replaced a 1DMKII shutter for RM500 (US $145)

 

Nikon D3 Shutter Replacement Cost - PhotoMalaysia Community

 

 

Calculator for Malaysian Ringgit (MYR) Currency Exchange Rate Conversion

[AlanG]

It's not a "sales" tax at all. It's Value Added Tax, and is payable on any good or service. Including servicing Leica shutters. The service provider (in this case Leica) "add value" to something (your broken camera) and hence that service is taxable. It's what pays for free healthcare at point of need, plus a load of other things.

 

It's the difference between indirect and direct taxation and is what makes the Tax a "choice". If you don't want to pay the tax, don't have the service done.

 

I understand the concept of VAT somewhat. Its advantage is it is hard to dodge and pretty easy for the states to measure and collect. So even those paid under the table in cash will eventually spend that money and pay the VAT. It was part of my business classes in London back in 1973. Most everyone likes the idea that it is simple and straightforward.

 

Why I say it and similar taxes are regressive is that they place a bigger burden on those with a lower income as those individuals spend a greater portion of their income. That is why a national sales tax in the US (as opposed to a progressive income tax) has been opposed by Democrats and others. I presume food and some other necessities are not subject to VAT.

[menos I M6]

Here on the forum, I have seen a very nice strip down of the Leica M8 by a user, who really disassembled the camera down to the shutter.

 

As I remember, to come actually to the shutter, it is necessary, to disassemble the COMPLETE camera!

 

I can imagine, that the work load a skilled technician has in Solms, to replace a stuck shutter is quite near to the workload, to actually build the camera in Solms from pre assembled groups, shipped from Leica suppliers.

 

It definitely includes extensive calibration and testing of all involved components and camera functions, which also explains, why Leica comfortably grants a 12month warranty on the WHOLE camera after such an operation.

 

You really must see things in perspective. A shutter change/ repair is impossible to do economically valid for an amount of say 200,- USD.

 

It might be, one can get this kind of work done by an external skilled repair service for a lower cost with a much lower involved labor cost base in their business calculation (due to less overhead cost, less depreciation cost, … ). The granted warranty on the repair job though can not include all camera components and such a long amount of time. The business risk for such a warranty on an expensive kit like a digital M is too high to be attractive to a small business.

 

Sometimes people buy a big luxury car and then complain about the higher cost for a broken water pump as for their old Fiat or Chevrolet. These people need perspective.

 

No pun intended and no comment on the legal/ warranty discussion here (I see, it got way out of hand in a communicative way - for the OP, as for the participants of the discussion).

[pgk]

In my experience, Canon and Nikon service was quite reasonable and very fast.

 

I see Leica as a fairly arrogant company. But I don't think it is a good policy for Leica to see its repair service as a profit center. And if they truly are so inefficient that they have to charge so much, then something is really wrong there.

 

Well, and I can only comment on the 'pro' service from each company, my personal experience to date has been that Leica have been the best company to deal with by far - in fact by a very good margin. The last time I shipped a camera off to them (as I was going away for a short time and didn't need it), I arrived back to find a note from the shipping company asking me to rearrange delivery, AND an email from Leica concerned that they had been notified that the camera hadn't as yet been delivered. I stress that this is MY personal experience, and no doubt others have had similar and probably dis-similar too .

[stunsworth]

Here on the forum, I have seen a very nice strip down of the Leica M8 by a user, who really disassembled the camera down to the shutter.

 

As I remember, to come actually to the shutter, it is necessary, to disassemble the COMPLETE camera!

 

Here's the thread you're thinking of by Mark Norton...

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html

 

Obviously as well as disassembly the camera needs to be assembled again and recovered.

[jaapv]

Come one man. I've already answered this question.

Yes - and are resorting to something that smells of blackmail through the sites you control.

[Julian Thompson]

Going off topic but I also cannot understand why a poster in this thread is banging on about owning a Porsche Cayenne without any sense of embarrassment? [Close quote] I deleted the last line since it is rude, unsupported and uncalled for. Stuart Nordheimer

 

I happen to like my car apart from its rusty door.

 

But keep this on topic and keep your insults to yourself - you're supposed to be agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, not comparing other posters to drug dealers.

Thanks Stuart. You're very kind.

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

Got a response from Ms Frankl yesterday - will keep you up to date with how it progresses:

 

"Dear Mr. Webb,

 

Thank you for your inquiery and your mail dtd. 06.02.10. I´m sorry to have to learn, that your Leica M8 is not in good working condition.

I have talked to our workshop about your camera and we are not sure, if there is a fault on the shutter. There is a bug on the firmware which causes the alert "shutter fault" . This problem should be gone with the next firmware which is hopefully comming out soon. But either way, we would like to ask you to send the camera in for a check. Please include a copy of the bill of sale for the warranty. If the camera is not covered by warranty anymore, I can not say at the moment, if a repair will still be free of charge. I would reccomand to send the camera and give us the opportunity to check the camera first and then we will see about the costs and how our CEO or our Devision Manager will decide. I can asure you, that we will find a way.

You can either send the camera directly to our service or you can send it through our agency in the UK. Please let me know once the camera is on its way, so I can inform our workshop about it.

Please excuse the inconvenience this has been causing you !

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards

 

Andrea Frankl"

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

Yes - and are resorting to something that smells of blackmail through the sites you control.

 

I will simply present to people my view of what has happened together with the facts about how Leica have dealt with the issue.

 

We now know that Leica are aware of a 'bug' in the camera that is causing this issue and everything they have done so far has been very positive. I think it is most likely that any article I do publish will actually paint Leica in a very good light, not a bad one.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

Got a response from Ms Frankl yesterday...

Exactly what i expected from Leica. Congrats to them so far.