M8 shutter fault - get Leica to repair it for free

[SJP]

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The M8 was my first Leica, it could well be my last.

Exactly what Leica is claiming. We have another convert:D

 

I must admit I am getting tired of this endless litany of abysmal failure, where in fact this is a great camera and despite some theething problems has turned out fine as far as I am concerned.

 

The only repair I needed so far was a rangefinder tweak for 100 euro or so at our local Leica repair guy (including a CLA of an old lens tele-elmarit 90/2.8 fat), this was because the camera crashed to the ground while on a tripod, lens first into the snow. It remained working fine but the rangefinder had a very slight vertical misalignment. It took me > 3 months to actually see that it needed some adjustment.

 

We have had regular surveys in this forum of happy versus non-happy M8 users and the number of camera's with problems was always rather low.

 

People just enjoy war, theft and criminality more than "cat saved out of cement mill" type stories, similarly the cameras that crap out cause more vocal complaints than working cameras cause praise.

 

Meanwhile I am considering to drop the insurance of the camera altogether, using the adagium "do not insure what you can afford to replace", at least that is what my dad told me. At the time admittedly I was not prone to listen to advice - but I guess I may have grown up by now .

Edited February 11, 2010 by SJP

[Rick]

It is also interesting that those with problems are loud, prolific and redundant, no?

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[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

Yeah, I just don't get it. In my thread there are certainly lots of people saying that the M8 is a very reliable camera, with very few issues - it's just from what I see pretty much every day somebody new is telling us that it's not. Do you guys think we are making it up?

[stunsworth]

Then if you just look at this forum and see how many have sent their cameras back 2+ times, and compare that with how many reported no problems.

 

Alan, I'm sorry but none of that is of any significance statistically. Not are most M8 users not members of this forum, but even for those that are, most people who have a working camera just get on and use it without making comment.

[Rick]

Yeah, I just don't get it. In my thread there are certainly lots of people saying that the M8 is a very reliable camera, with very few issues - it's just from what I see pretty much every day somebody new is telling us that it's not. Do you guys think we are making it up?

 

I don't think you are making it up. Not at all. I get it. But, you need to make an effort to get us. Specifically, for me anyway, I get tired of you and Wilfredo (to name one of many here) that post over and over the same anti-Leica product quality views over and over and in just about any thread that comes up that you guys can work it into. PW, you have to admit that you have been pretty busy in other threads the last week jumping in with the anti-Leica message. We get it you guys.

 

My camera works. I like it. No doubt it will fail one day. It has to. It is an electronic device. Just about every electronic device I have ever owned has finally failed. Some sooner than others. Some right out of the shoot. I deal with it. You deal with it too, ok?

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

I am dealing with it - that's the whole point!

[AlanG]

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Alan, I'm sorry but none of that is of any significance statistically. Not are most M8 users not members of this forum, but even for those that are, most people who have a working camera just get on and use it without making comment.

 

How would you know that? I can't think of any reason why a forum that is largely made up of strong enthusiasts for a brand would be more likely to have complaints than would owners who are not members of that forum. It seems to me that a lot of people on this forum were longtime Leica users, then they bought the M8. Some had issues with it and some didn't. So if anything, they were more likely to be predisposed to like the M8 and post positive things about it than not. Some reported their issues some probably didn't. It isn't as if this is the "Worldwide Leica M8 Complaint Forum." It basically is a pro-Leica forum so I take that into consideration and it makes these complaints about the M8 look even more serious particularly because they are posted here.

 

If you read every thread in the entire M8 forum, I think you will see that quite a number of M8 owners report that they have sent their camera to Leica under warranty for one issue or another - even if it is simply to adjust the rangefinder. And many of these are people who still love the camera and the "free" warranty service.

 

And after 3 years they still don't know if they can fix this "shutter fault message" problem via firmware? I can't fathom that.

 

Speaking of statistics... I wasn't. I am making suppositions based merely on observations from this forum. I came to this site for information and this is what I concluded from it. It could be that 5% of the cameras went back for repair or adjustment or up to the equivalent of 100+% (from the perspective of Leica having to eat the cost of multiple repairs.) Of course there is no way of us to know. But my bet would be that the number is fairly high. If you don't think the cost of warranty repairs has affected the price of the camera, that is your conclusion.

 

But I can't see depending on any item if there is a good chance it will take several weeks or even months for repair should something go wrong with it. If I didn't depend on my gear, then maybe I could be more accepting. Canon CPS service is supposed to be 3 day turnaround on-site not counting shipping time. The one time I needed repair, it took only three days including shipping. I think Nikon NPS is similar.

 

Leica has to step up to the plate both on reliability and service. At least that is my read from this forum even if it has not been your experience. So you think I should just buy a camera and then see how it goes after I've read all of these posts and heard my friend's complaints about the 3 M8s he owned?

 

And after 3 years Leica can't say if they can fix the "shutter fault error message" via a firmware upgrade. I can't fathom how they don't know this by now.

Edited February 11, 2010 by AlanG

[jaapv]

.

 

But I can't see depending on any item if there is a good chance it will take several weeks or even months for repair should something go wrong with it. If I didn't depend on my gear, then maybe I could be more accepting. Canon CPS service is supposed to be 3 day turnaround on-site not counting shipping time. The one time I needed repair, it took only three days including shipping. I think Nikon NPS is similar.

 

Leica Express Service is 5 days and Leica Pro Service is two days. So what was your point again?

[AlanG]

Yeah, I just don't get it. In my thread there are certainly lots of people saying that the M8 is a very reliable camera, with very few issues - it's just from what I see pretty much every day somebody new is telling us that it's not. Do you guys think we are making it up?

 

 

I don't and I appreciate getting the information.

[AlanG]

Leica Express Service is 5 days and Leica Pro Service is two days. So what was your point again?

 

So what is with all of these reports of months waiting for a part? Do they miraculously find the part if you pay enough?

 

So that is charged on top of having a warranty? And I didn't see any mention of this service in the US.

And if you don't want to pay the money, you have to wait how long if you live in the US and the camera has to go back to Germany?

 

The 80-200 EUR charge + VAT simply makes my point that warranty work may be affecting the price of the camera and they have to try to make up for it somewhere. And perhaps Canon and Nikon have to do the same and charge for fast repairs especially out of warranty ones.

 

NEW: Fast & Express Service

 

You'd like to see your Leica product back in action again as soon as possible? Use our Fast & Express Service and choose the repair time yourself.

Fast Repair

 

* Repair time from day of order placement (until 12 o'clock midday): 5 work days

* Return by Express DHL

* The extra charge is EUR 80 plus VAT

* Outside Germany but inside the EU the charge is EUR 110 plus VAT

 

Express Repair

 

* Repair time from day of order placement (until 12 o'clock midday.): 2 work days

* Return by Express DHL

* The extra charge is EUR 170 plus VAT.

* Outside Germany but inside the EU the charge is EUR 200 plus VAT.

 

I noticed that the prices all say an "amount plus VAT."

Edited February 11, 2010 by AlanG

[SJP]

How would you know that? ... snip ... by now.

Because there have been threads explicitly asking people to respond regardless of whether they had problems or not and then the number of "no problem" owners seemed much more healthy than the forum normally would suggest. I did a comprehensive search for all postings for "shutter fault" in this site and I could identify about 10 cases (more postings, but 10 individual cases). Based on that & that not all M8 owners will come here or report problems you need to build in a safety margin, but even if it was 100 failures it would still only be about 0.5% of total production, possibly less.

 

The M8 shutter is reliable.

Edited February 11, 2010 by SJP

[stunsworth]

How would you know that? I can't think of any reason why a forum that is largely made up of strong enthusiasts for a brand would be more likely to have complaints than would owners who are not members of that forum.

 

I'm not saying they are, what I'm saying (repeatedly) is that you don't know the proportion of M8 owners who have had problems. Not on this forum, not in total for all the M8s that have been sold. It is human nature that when people are happy with something they tend not to make a noise about it. It used to be called the silent majority.

 

I've met maybe two dozen or more M8 users and none of them has had to send their camera back to Solms. Does that mean no one has ever had to send a camera back? Of course not, anecdotal evidence can't give you an accurate picture of the real situation - whether it's the people I know, or the people who've posted on this forum.

[jaapv]

Add twentynine users with two returns to that number, Steve ( I'm not counting accident damage, though)

[jaapv]

So what is with all of these reports of months waiting for a part? Do they miraculously find the part if you pay enough?

 

So that is charged on top of having a warranty? And I didn't see any mention of this service in the US.

And if you don't want to pay the money, you have to wait how long if you live in the US and the camera has to go back to Germany?

 

The 80-200 EUR charge + VAT simply makes my point that warranty work may be affecting the price of the camera and they have to try to make up for it somewhere. And perhaps Canon and Nikon have to do the same and charge for fast repairs especially out of warranty ones.

 

NEW: Fast & Express Service

 

You'd like to see your Leica product back in action again as soon as possible? Use our Fast & Express Service and choose the repair time yourself.

Fast Repair

 

* Repair time from day of order placement (until 12 o'clock midday): 5 work days

* Return by Express DHL

* The extra charge is EUR 80 plus VAT

* Outside Germany but inside the EU the charge is EUR 110 plus VAT

 

Express Repair

 

* Repair time from day of order placement (until 12 o'clock midday.): 2 work days

* Return by Express DHL

* The extra charge is EUR 170 plus VAT.

* Outside Germany but inside the EU the charge is EUR 200 plus VAT.

 

I noticed that the prices all say an "amount plus VAT."

Yes - and the turnaround on my M9 was four days - without extra payment. In fact Leica refused my offer for paying for express service (not needed, Sir)

And you are fooling yourself if you think you are not paying for guarantee on any other product by any other company. It is always calculated into the retail price. Nothing specifically Leica about that. And if you haven't seen it for the USA you have simply neglected to look at the website: http://us.leica-camera.com/service/service_and_repair/express/

Edited February 12, 2010 by jaapv

[AlanG]

I'm not saying they are, what I'm saying (repeatedly) is that you don't know the proportion of M8 owners who have had problems. Not on this forum, not in total for all the M8s that have been sold. It is human nature that when people are happy with something they tend not to make a noise about it. It used to be called the silent majority.

 

I've met maybe two dozen or more M8 users and none of them has had to send their camera back to Solms. Does that mean no one has ever had to send a camera back? Of course not, anecdotal evidence can't give you an accurate picture of the real situation - whether it's the people I know, or the people who've posted on this forum.

 

 

OK, I'm hiring the Nielsen company to find out for me just in case I'm prejudging the M8 based on the info on this forum.

 

So what information on this forum is reliable?

[AlanG]

Leica Express Service is 5 days and Leica Pro Service is two days. So what was your point again?

 

Is there anything else on my post that you wish to reply to? Or does that disqualify my all of my concerns. By the way, I don't reside in Europe.

[jaapv]

I think others in this thread have done so quite adequately-partly even before you posted. So use the express service of your country - I gave you the link earlier..

[AlanG]

I think others in this thread have done so quite adequately-partly even before you posted. So use the express service of your country - I gave you the link earlier..

 

Can you point me to where I can find info on this in the US?

 

Here is all I can find on the US site which just links back the the inside Europe service.

 

Leica Camera AG - Service and Repair

 

From someone else's forum post today -

_________________________________________________

 

There is no other camera that I had 3 replacements for and had to miss 3-4 months in 2 years time because it was away for repairs

 

Its the M8 users that are the victims of Leica's learning curve

 

But they may have it right finally, I hope so for them

_________________________________________________

 

OK I'll pretend I never read this.

[jaapv]

Ah-yes Reinier. The bloke who put his camera in a condensation chamber and expected guarantee for moisture damage. In the end his insurance paid up - where he should have claimed in the first place. I gave you the link to the US site. If they link back to Solms I suggest you ask your side of the pond.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Rick]

I am dealing with it - that's the whole point!

 

No, you are not dealing with it. You are whining on a forum and making assumptions about how Leica is going to treat you before you have even contacted them. Do you even read your own posts.

 

You became irrelevant in your first few post when you wrote that you were preparing to sue Leica and launch some bogus journalistic report on your amateur travel photography site about how Leica was going to deal with your camera problem and it later turns out you had not even talked to them yet.

 

All you have accomplished, so far, is to flush out the usual forum whiners like yourself. And, a lot of them don't even own a M8 camera!