M9 shutter metering issues

[jamriman]

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I met a wonderful talented photographer through eBay. He had a very interesting solution for more accurate metering capabilites on the M9. If I may quote him:

 

"The crude exposure metering in the M9 just reads light reflected off three

of the horizontal metal shutter blades (the blades rise and drop

vertically). They're painted with two different shades of grey ..better

than the M8.2 which had just a single grey-painted shutter blade. But a

problem arises if there's any bright light (e.g; the sun) reflecting -

after passing through the lens - off the left or right edges of the

shutter. The camera then chooses a shorter exposure than optimal. And if

the camera's held vertically, in 'portrait' mode, then any sun above what

you're shooting always causes under-exposure. So I think I'll use my black

felt tip pen on the left and right edges of those grey blades, to cut out

this tendency to under-expose. (I can't think why the Leica designers

didn't just restrict the grey to a central area to avoid this problem ..or

create a pattern on the blades like that on the old Olympus OM2's shutter

curtain.)"

 

What do all think? Thanks.

[jaapv]

:D It won't make one whit of difference, except probably destroying the shutter. The metering cell has a limited angle of view, so it reads only from the centre of the shutter. The grey and white on the side of the shutter blades is of no influence whatever.IIRC that is even mentioned in the manual.

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[michali]

Are you guys taking the piss???

 

With all due respect to your eBay friend, the M9's metering is anything but crude.

 

On second thought maybe he should apply for a job at Leica. They may have a vacancy for him in their technical department, having just fired the guy who designed the crude exposure metering on the M9.

[jaapv]

It is crude, Mike, if your talent requires you to use a multi-matrix exposure system with 28.000 stored reference images to get a decently exposed photograph.

[michali]

It is crude, Mike, if your talent requires you to use a multi-matrix exposure system with 28.000 stored reference images to get a decently exposed photograph.

 

Jaap- If you look at it that way, I guess he's right, silly me for thinking otherwise. : D

[jamriman]

Are you guys taking the piss???

 

With all due respect to your eBay friend, the M9's metering is anything but crude.

 

On second thought maybe he should apply for a job at Leica. They may have a vacancy for him in their technical department, having just fired the guy who designed the crude exposure metering on the M9.

 

Sorry, I thought you technical wizards might have some educational but not demeaning comments. Silly me.

 

A bit obnoxious don't ya think?

[jaapv]

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Sorry about that, but read my first post - it is an utterly silly idea by your mate. The ink will unbalance the shutterblades, causing the shutter to self-destruct with a voided guarantee and it makes no sense, since reading the manual reveals that only a centre ellipse (nearly a circle actually) of the painted blades is actually used for metering, making it close to a spot meter, the most sophisticated metering system known in photography.

Edited January 12, 2010 by jaapv

[jamriman]

Sorry about that, but read my first post - it is an utterly silly idea by your mate. The ink will unbalance the shutterblades, causing the shutter to self-destruct, and it makes no sense, since reading the manual reveals that only a centre ellipse of the painted blades is actually used for metering, making it close to a spot meter, the most sophisticated metering system known in photography.

 

Your comment was decent and educational. I fowarded you opinion to him, however I am embarrsed to send him this link.

[Nicoleica]

I may be wrong, but my understanding of why the M9 uses more grey painted blades than the M8 is due the larger sensor size. Due to this, more than one blade needs to be light grey in order to use the same relative area for metering. I'm sure that the metering cell optics have been altered to read this larger area too.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Nicoleica
Spellink!

[jaapv]

Yes- and the two blades are grey to compensate for the light falloff of the measuring cell in horizontal direction, so it will measure identically for portrait and landscape orientation

[Steve Ash]

Is it 1st of April already?

 

Regards

Steve

[jaapv]

Your comment was decent and educational. I fowarded you opinion to him,

You might forward him as well that the most precise way of using the meter is to go to manual, measure the darkest and lightest parts of the image and mentally calculate the exposure needed to get the exposure he needs to get the right mood in the photograph.

[250swb]

You might forward him as well that the most precise way of using the meter is to go to manual, measure the darkest and lightest parts of the image and mentally calculate the exposure needed to get the exposure he needs to get the right mood in the photograph.

 

You mean the Zone System? Or he could use a grey card, a patch of grass, or a caucasian palm held out (all of which reflect 18%) to meter off instead of touching up his shutter blades.

 

Steve

[jklotz]

I'd recommend he paint the edges of his shutter blades so he can report back and tell us what happens.

[AlanJW]

I don't think the Leica meter is crude for the reasons better expressed above. But I also would not denigrate the "multi-matrix" metering systems such as those used by Nikon. In my film days, I used an F5 and for working fast I thought its metering system was sophisticated and uncannily accurate and did not require multiple readings for most shots. Of course there are times when one must use the database stored in one's head to expose accurately and I happen to prefer the Leica system now, but it is not the only way to a good exposure.

[jaapv]

Yes- more or less. Of course the unique idea of the Zone System was the integration of the tonal values throughout the whole process from exposure to final print by controlling all variables at each stage and we are just talking about exposure here. But Ansel Adams used "best practice" as described above to determine exposure, and basically even automated systems like matrix metering imitate zone measuring, albeit more or less crudely or even surprisingly well, depending on the sophistication of the system.

You mean the Zone System? Or he could use a grey card, a patch of grass, or a caucasian palm held out (all of which reflect 18%) to meter off instead of touching up his shutter blades.

Steve

Edited January 12, 2010 by jaapv

[jaapv]

I don't think the Leica meter is crude for the reasons better expressed above. But I also would not denigrate the "multi-matrix" metering systems such as those used by Nikon. In my film days, I used an F5 and for working fast I thought its metering system was sophisticated and uncannily accurate and did not require multiple readings for most shots. Of course there are times when one must use the database stored in one's head to expose accurately and I happen to prefer the Leica system now, but it is not the only way to a good exposure.

I certainly don't denigrate the better measuring systems - but I get wary when automation is used as an excuse to replace thinking.

[dpattinson]

So, it could be that your friend is talking about direct light on the metering cell, or a specular reflection off the shutter blades that causes the meter to grossly underexpose?

 

I have noticed a similar problem in my M8, where there is a bright light source directly above and the lens axis, even one that with the cropped sensor is non-image forming. The meter must either get direct light on the cell (my opinion), or a specular reflection off the shutter (maybe - not sure if this is possible) because it grossly underexposes (many stops, not just the usual 2-4 stops you get from normal back light).

 

In my opinion, blacking the shutter blades would not help if this is the problem, as they would be just as reflective as the originals, perhaps even more if the result is more 'shiny' than the current coating.

[scottwallick]

I'd recommend he paint the edges of his shutter blades so he can report back and tell us what happens.

 

I agree. +1 for experimentation. Even if the results will be expected . .

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[michali]

Sorry, I thought you technical wizards might have some educational but not demeaning comments. Silly me.

 

A bit obnoxious don't ya think?

 

I sincerely apologize if you thought my comments were demeaning, no malice intended.

 

However his comments about the M9 metering system being crude and his proposed solution are totally ludicrous.

 

As Jaap pointed out there's only one outcome and that is damage to the shutter and warranty invalidation.