M8 debunking the theory of the M line

[carstenw]

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If that figure is accurate, I'm buying Leica stock. Unfortunately, I think it's more like a few hundred who got the M8 before the shipments were cut off. I've been "next on the list" for a black M8 with the largest dealer in Germany for four months and still don't have one. Those of you who do can consider yourselves the lucky, chosen few. I know you've had to deal with all the issues, but at least you've been able to use what I still think is the best damn 35mm format digital camera made.

 

Patiently Waiting,

 

What's the biggest dealer in Germany? Leica-bei-Meister?

 

I got mine, and I feel lucky, sure. It was out of whack, focusing-wise, however, and I shot it all of 2 or 3 days, and then back it went, where it has been for over a month now. So I don't feel super-lucky either... I had it for long enough to decide it was a keeper though.

[fotografr]

What's the biggest dealer in Germany? Leica-bei-Meister?

 

Foto Hobby RAHN GmbH since 1910 at Frankfurt/Main.

Europe´s largest display for Leica cameras, lenses & accessories.

 

Too bad about the focusing, but I'd still love to have had your luck. I'm quite sure you'll have yours back before I see one. I could have had one a long time ago had I wanted to accept a silver M8, but I decided to hold out for black.

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[carstenw]

I accepted silver

[adan]

As to the number of shipped M8s - mine has a serial number north of 3102000 (starting from 3100000). But they were not handed out in order, so that's just approximate. My understanding (Guy, you know my sources!) is that the U.S. got about 400 shipped out in the first round before the freeze to fix the electronics.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Hi guys i am in Yosemite and the weather is great and ready to get to work on some great M8 images . Robert is starting a thread now so we have this all in one place so we keep it neat for the mods. There are 2 M8's here and Robert Stevens and myself are mostly working the M8 . Jack Flesher is here another great shooter and expert so this should be fun. There are canon 5ds and hassy with Aptus back, DMR so we will have a boys weekend that should at least give you some images to look at and have a little fun. I think this board just needs to sit back and see images and have a little fun.

[thomasl.se]

the weather is great

Speaking of which, I was looking for M8 operating temperature in the technical pdf. You owners surely must have the numbers somewhere?

[marknorton]

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As to the number of shipped M8s - mine has a serial number north of 3102000 (starting from 3100000). But they were not handed out in order, so that's just approximate. My understanding (Guy, you know my sources!) is that the U.S. got about 400 shipped out in the first round before the freeze to fix the electronics.

 

Less than I expected...

[ho_co]

I was looking for M8 operating temperature in the technical pdf. You owners surely must have the numbers somewhere?

Thomas--I don't own an M8, but in the downloadable instructions, the camera's operating range is listed as 0° to 40° C. In addition, for charging, battery temperature must be in the range of 0° to 35° C..

[thomasl.se]

Thanks Howard,

 

It's been a most extraordinary mild fall and early winter here in Scandinavia, but sub zeros are not exactly unheard of either. So, obviously "cool" if it could handle that (how about that pun).

 

I thought I looked through the downloads... just one of those days today.

 

 

Edit: How expensive or impossible would it be to produce an M8 that could handle extreme temperatures? I'm thinking there must be military electronically operated machinery for all kinds of weathers. And I could be plain wrong.

[carstenw]

It is designed for a larger range than that. I saw it somewhere, in an LFI article or something. That is just the range they put in their warranty, I guess. Being relatively new to digital sensor electronics, I imagine they are nervous.

[Riley]

Edit: How expensive or impossible would it be to produce an M8 that could handle extreme temperatures? I'm thinking there must be military electronically operated machinery for all kinds of weathers. And I could be plain wrong.

 

not a goer i think

principle issue is batteries that operate sub zero, some perform better than others, keeping them on your person and loading in the camera when needed is a workaround

 

lenses and finders circuit boards not sealed to weather could be permanently affected, moisture ingress via temp change would be impossible to prevent, advise you forget it if this is an extended outdoor foray

[thomasl.se]

A climate controlled housing for cold weather expeditions, maybe... or is an all out mechanical film camera the only viable option for that?

 

I'll hold it there, not straying too far off topic.

[Riley]

well it rather depends on what your vision of an expedition is

cameras such as Olympus E1 are completely sealed, O rings and all, as are Oly lenses

that would suit normal outdoor weather conditions, inclement rain and all

but freezing antarctic blizzards might be rather different

this for mechanical cameras too, automatic rifles and the like are known to fail in such conditions, it can become a metalurgic, or material fit issue, the smaller the device, the more prone it becomes

[thomasl.se]

Yeah, I was thinking about some DIY solution to at least take care of door to door transport in bitter cold. Probably easiest just to keep the handy sized M8 tucked flat inside the clothing.

 

I'll think of something else for my weekly cross Greenland skiing trips.

[Jack MacDonough]

Regarding the cold, I'm in Wisconsin and have done quite a bit of shooting at less than 10 degrees. Not a problem with the M8. I always go out with a fully charged battery.

 

As Guy first mentioned, this camera is a joy. I have taken just one assignment with my old 1Ds that required a tilt-shift lens that wouldn't work on a RF. All other shots with the 8. After selling my 75mm 1.4 three years ago because I didn't think a digital M would come, I am now sorry I did that, I fortunately held on to the rest of them once I heard Leica could and would. I think this M8 will sell Leica many lenses. Yes I look forward to the IR filters, but I am very pleased to be one of the 400 users in the US. I am sorry that Guy had difficulty buying his back up M8. That suggests, few users want to give them up.

 

Back to the cold issue. I worry about summer, not winter. When I move from an air conditioned space to outdoor humid heat, I've been relieved that the Canon has been weatherproof, as all the surfaces got condensation. I will have to put this in a plastic bag during a warm up phase I guess? No I will probably push my luck and see how it goes.

[mahler_one]

I find you can get acceptable results with high ISO's

 

ISO 2500

Well done image! However...was the Mother's skirt black or purple:}

 

Edwin

[peterb]

The M8 is no doubt an extraordinary picture taking machine. The results I've seen so far, even with the royal blacks, are nothing short of jaw dropping (particularly with the Noctilux at f1! Wow!!! Telephoto shots will NEVER be the same.)

 

Guy's notion that the camera can do more than merely be used for reportage is well taken. It certainly can. With an LCD, there is no reason the M8 can't be equally applicable in many areas once limited to SLRs. Moreover, it's compactness and sveltness make it even more desireable under many situations than its very bulky and heavy DSLR counterparts. Within the rage of lenses utilized by the M system, of course. And I certainly agree that most of us will be using ISOs as we did before-- namely in the 160 (HA!) to 400 or 800 range. And with the exception of total night stalkers, rarely going into the exosphere of higher ISOs. (I think in all my years I only bought one roll of 3200 film and even then I thought the results sucked compared with what I could have taken at 400 with the Summilux 35 ASPH.) But for some, admittedly it would be essential to go that high. The point Guy made was that the M8 takes extraordinary shots at 'normal' ISOs. And considering that the camera has some of the the most extreme light gathering optics around AND the fact that the LOWEST ISO on the thing is 160, that sets the stage for some remarkable results. Particularly with studio lights.

 

But first and foremost the M8, like all the M's before it, is, in my opinion, a reportage camera. A swift, (nearly) silent, picture taking machine well designed for the purpose of reporting the fleeting moments of life all around us. Naturally. (Like weddings, for example) And the reason, I've always maintained, is all due to the fact it has a non-through-the-lens viewfinder with frame lines.

 

Hear me out.

 

With an SLR, one 'makes' a picture. That is, one looks though the finder and with the lens optics providing what you'll see, instinctively, one composes a shot within the frame to fit the frame. Zooming if necessary to fill the space to make the shot, compositionally speaking, as dramatic as possible without having to move from your position. Because of the nature of actually seeing what the lens sees it's hard to look dispassionately through the viewfinder and do anything other than compose the best shot you can to fit the frame. It's all too natural. The magnificent results from SLR photography over the years in books and galleries galore bear this out.

 

With the rangefinder however, the technique is altered. Instead of having any the lens optics that force you to compose a shot that fits the frame you have a wide open window of a space. The only indication that tells you what the camera is likely to see within that space are the frame lines superimposed over the view. Instead of composing a shot as one does with an SLR one 'finds' the shot within the window you're peering out of. The photog merely shifts the camera about as he or she peers through that window to capture that part of the scene he or she wishes to capture within the proper frame line. Moreover, the view from the finder forces the photographer to connect harder with his/her subjects dodging closer or pulling back as necessary to capture ideally what the photographer sees in his/her attempts to catch the fleeting action the photographer witnesses through the finder. A reason I maintain that explains the oft used argument about the greater intimacy and energy achieved with M (and other rangefinder) shots over, say the detatched, more composed and more dramatic shots achieved with the SLR or DSLR.

 

The thing is, with a typically extreme depth of field found with wide angle lenses (the strength of most rangefinders) and the ability of the human controlling the camera to make rapid-fire decisions on fleeting action, capturing what he or she intends, that is why the M8 (and all rangefinders and point and shoots) are such superb 'reportage' cameras.

 

But as Guy asserts, and I don't disagree, this incarnation of the M has increased its utility far beyond mere reportage.

 

Regards,

 

P

[Guest stnami]

Hear me out.

 

With an SLR, one 'makes' a picture...Moreover, the view from the finder forces the photographer to connect harder with his/her subjects dodging closer or pulling back as necessary to capture ideally what the photographer sees in his/her attempts to catch the fleeting action the photographer witnesses through the finde A reason I maintain that explains the oft used argument about the greater intimacy and energy achieved with M (and other rangefinder) shots over, say the detatched, more composed and more dramatic shots achieved with the SLR or DSLR.

Pretentious bias twaddle, the primary school kids that I teach photography to show a greater depth of understanding than this.

[peterb]

Imants calling the images made through an SLR detatched was a bit strong. And I apologize if you may have taken it the wrong way.

 

What I meant was that, landscape shots notwithstanding, with the frequent use of telephoto zoom lenses, the mainstay of the SLR and DSLR, I think more often than not the shots are taken comfortably from a distance with the shooter zooming in or out as needed to compose the shot as a result of that. Vs getting into the thick of things as you often do with the M camera. That's what I meant by 'detached' - -I bought into the various authors on Leica books who compared at length about the differences between the two systems and their respective shooting styles.

 

That's not to say both systems don't produce stunning, intimate equally dramatic results. Of course they do. And history has proved that. I just feel that the results are just different.

 

And I think a lot of it has to do with viewing and composing through the viewfinder and picturing what you'll see (as a result of the lens effects) vs looking through the screen of an SLR and actually seeing what you'll see what the lens will do.

 

But there's no need to get personal in your attacks.

 

P

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[gravastar]

.............The photog merely shifts the camera about as he or she peers through that window to capture that part of the scene he or she wishes to capture within the proper frame line. Moreover, the view from the finder forces the photographer to connect harder with his/her subjects dodging closer or pulling back as necessary to capture ideally what the photographer sees in his/her attempts to catch the fleeting action the photographer witnesses through the finder. ..............

 

Yes, one thing I really like about the viewfinder is unlike an SLR when you move backwards and forwards you don't have to refocus until the last minute.

 

Bob.