Curious moderation

[dorman]

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I am really sorry if I was the root cause of that discussion being terminated. (Post #11)

I thought that the quotation I cited was appropriate to the Greek situation, whoever the originator was.

Would it have been OK if I had not mentioned the source?

I'll refrain from expressing any similar thoughts in future.

Edited July 18, 2015 by dorman

[Manoleica]

Re: Post #9

Presumably you have overwritten the actual Post!

Nothing I have read either before or after offends me.

Though I do not accept some of the views put forward.

Life is give and take. Give us back the Post and take the credit..

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[Peter H]

You wouldn't have written that had you read post #9

 

And yes, we do move in when a thread gets fully political, based on sad experience. We lost too many valuable members because of political fights.

 

I stand by every word I have written Jaap, (which to repeat yet again questions the moderators' joint judgement on this single issue, but does not question anyone's integrity or any other personal quality) but I admit I don't understand the reference to post number 9.

 

I do understand why the moderators feel it necessary to close threads. I think it is highly regrettable and it makes me seriously question the nature of the whole forum. I don't want to over-react, but I do take this question very seriously. Maybe too seriously for some, but then we're all different and I wish this forum above all was better able to accommodate that.

[Guest]

Re: Post #9

Presumably you have overwritten the actual Post!

Nothing I have read either before or after offends me.

Though I do not accept some of the views put forward.

Life is give and take. Give us back the Post and take the credit..

Give a little to the Greeks in distress and you take the credit.

[Manoleica]

Gee' if we can give Cuba and the Iranians bagfulls of love and money, slide a little off the top and UPS it to the Greek Parliament..

Edited July 18, 2015 by manoleica

[jip]

So maybe all of you should just stop discussing why and when a thread was locked... 

 

C'mon we're all adults (I think) and this just sounds like pointing fingers at eachother...

 

Stop it, and let's talk about wether a red dot or black dot or tape is better.

[gyoung]

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I am really sorry if I was the root cause of that discussion being terminated. (Post #11)

I thought that the quotation I cited was appropriate to the Greek situation, whoever the originator was.

Would it have been OK if I had not mentioned the source?

I'll refrain from expressing any similar thoughts in future.

The quotation of a right wing politician's views on socialism is not really helpful to debate, as its so predictable, and its symptomatic of British politics in that its knocking the opposition, I'd much rather hear Thatcher on capitalism.

But the point here is that the problem of political discussion is that it is rarely debate, merely restatement of entrenched views. The mods are on a hiding to nothing wherever they stop it as someone will feel that they haven't had the opportunity to (re)state their point of view, and therefore feel that there is a bias against them or their views.

A lot of the moderators (voluntary) time is spent (wasted) on judging the point at which to call a halt before personal attack inevitably start, but to extend those personal attacks to the moderators is not IMHO objective,or acceptable.

 

Gerry

[Peter H]

The quotation of a right wing politician's views on socialism is not really helpful to debate, as its so predictable, and its symptomatic of British politics in that its knocking the opposition, I'd much rather hear Thatcher on capitalism.

But the point here is that the problem of political discussion is that it is rarely debate, merely restatement of entrenched views. The mods are on a hiding to nothing wherever they stop it as someone will feel that they haven't had the opportunity to (re)state their point of view, and therefore feel that there is a bias against them or their views.

A lot of the moderators (voluntary) time is spent (wasted) on judging the point at which to call a halt before personal attack inevitably start, but to extend those personal attacks to the moderators is not IMHO objective,or acceptable.

 

Gerry

 

 

I agree with most of this.

 

The odd thing is that I'm a member of a couple of forums that, amongst many other things, host active political discussions with virtually no moderation, and it's interesting to see that once the initial burst of antagonism has been exhausted, (it rarely happens anymore) the discussions almost always develop into interesting explorations of different points of view.

 

Once people have established their different political identities they tend to move on from sloganeering, and move on to more sensible debate. Certainly the personal attacks diminish and in fact more or less vanish altogether (though are sometimes replaced with humour)  as people start to respect each other and become interested in why they hold such different views. 

 

These are not highly intellectual, refined sites, by the way. One is a football fans' site where quite robust attitudes are commonplace, and has many tens of thousands of active members and yet the almost total absence of moderation has allowed it to become one of the most civil and interesting sites I've come across.

 

It upsets me that a Leica-dedicated site, of all things, finds politics such a difficult subject to handle.

[IkarusJohn]

What did post#9 say?

 

I'm baffled by all this, I have to say. Even on matters photographic, there are posters who seem to have no understanding of basic courtesy. Why would politics make any difference.

 

For example, if I ask why in the US, the Federal Govt has a single department for guns, alcohol and tobacco, the Brits would recognize the irony, and many from the US would find the question strange. That's rather what an Internet forum is about, isn't it?

 

Exposure to the points of view of others. Those who just bash anything that moves with opinion based on not much don't need politics to behave badly.

[earleygallery]

Just to clarify, my comment was only about the general problem of the 'no politics' rule.

 

I think it creates problems for the Moderators who have to make a call if a thread is getting political or not.

 

Personally I think it creates more problems than it solves. We all discuss politics in our 'real' lives and I think we should be allowed to do so here.

 

Mods can step in if a thread becomes bad natured as they do with all others.

 

I enjoy our general discussions and usually learn from the diverse bunch of interesting people who make up this forum.

[gyoung]

I am personally in favour of the ban on politics, and also religion. Its rare that you get real debate and it is divisive, and it makes a lot of work for the mods.

I come here for photography in general, and Leica in particular. If I want political debate I am sure there are forums for it.

 

Gerry

[Peter H]

I am personally in favour of the ban on politics, and also religion. Its rare that you get real debate and it is divisive, and it makes a lot of work for the mods.

I come here for photography in general, and Leica in particular. If I want political debate I am sure there are forums for it.

 

Gerry

 

I can understand that.

 

But our individual preferences shouldn't be reasons for banning subjects that are of interest to others should they?

 

One of the great joys of a forum of this kind is that you get to know people from different backgrounds, different parts of the world, and exchange views and opinions with them. 

 

I've learned an enormous amount here, both from the direct wisdom of other members and because they often put a very different perspective on things in a way that help me question my own ideas. Being able to transfer that wonderful diversity of perspectives from one subject to another is very valuable and attractive. It is even more effective when it comes about amongst people you have got to know and like and respect, despite sometimes some very striking differences of opinions.

 

It seems to great a thing to sacrifice so easily, and sad that I should have to go elsewhere to find the sort of interest in human affairs that I believe should be close to the heart of every committed photographer.

[Guest]

Now we're all curious about post # 9

[pico]

Neither is my post directed at you personally, but at the moderators as a group. I use the term "you" in the plural.

 

Ah, you see? There is a rationalization of our Texas "Y'all".  Then there is the deep Arkansas "Yuhzin".

Hope y'all will consider the modest improvement on the King's English.

[Guest]

Hmm, say Texas! 

Because everybody went "Y'all!" , "Y'all!" ... when eating crawfish with the bare hands off a big table covered with old newspapers at the Jazz Festival in New Orlëäns. No cowboy hats, nor pointy boots there. 

[lleo]

Howdy Well... considerin' an "improvement" the yall... that could be only came from a Texan. Lmao. Kiddin'.

Anyway. I think I wrote a post in this thread but it's sad how politics, which is the real cancer of society, can split people all over the world.

Even worst knowing than pre war Leicas have been dumped because the hate for the Germans.

I would have kept 'em no matter what; they were, and are, a piece of art in any case, ain't 'em?

[pico]

Hmm, say Texas! 

Because everybody went "Y'all!" , "Y'all!" ... when eating crawfish with the bare hands off a big table covered with old newspapers at the Jazz Festival in New Orlëäns. No cowboy hats, nor pointy boots there. 

 

Real cowboys no longer wear pointy boots because they don't want to be mistaken for truck drivers.

[pico]

Even worst knowing than pre war Leicas have been dumped because the hate for the Germans.

I would have kept 'em no matter what; they were, and are, a piece of art in any case, ain't 'em?

 

At the time very few, if any, knew the very good Leitz did to help the Jewish escape.

There's a link here somewhere that tells the story.

[StS]

Ah, you see? There is a rationalization of our Texas "Y'all".  Then there is the deep Arkansas "Yuhzin".

Hope y'all will consider the modest improvement on the King's English.

 

I came around youse recently, but don't know, whether this is proper English. Could also be 有色, yǒusè, for "colourful" (have-colour)....

 

Stefan

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[Jeffry Abt]

there are posters who seem to have no understanding of basic courtesy

In my view this is a problem with Internet forums in general. People say things to their fellow forum posters that they would never say to a person, in person! For example, the correcting of a person's grammar; attacking a man's religion, politics (of course); tedious correcting of misstatements of facts; a seemingly constant lecturing... There have been times when I've sworn I would never come back to this forum due to the rudeness expressed on the forum. But I enjoy Leica photography, and that keeps me coming back in spite of the experience being sometimes bitter.