Who hasn't bought an M9 and why?

[Guest BigSplash]

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In two years an M8.2 won't be worthless. But then again, a 3 year old M7 is worth less than was paid for it. What's the difference?

 

Far from being a stalwart for film, I just haven't jumped onto the M-digital bandwagon. I did have a DMR for a number of years, but sold that when I felt the time was right and have since bought an alternative to use with my R-glass, with which I am very happy indeed. BUt I similarly love using the M7 and M2 and R4.

 

I don't think that Leica owe me anything. The red dot as an investment is never part of the game - no consumer good is ever an investment. And that's all Leica cameras are - goods to be consumed. Consumer goods devalue in monetary terms, whether you like it or not. It's jusy that some devalue more quickly than others.

 

Try going to an alternative (if there is one that satisfies you) and see how much money you lose when making an "investment" with them.

 

Andy you have frequently made the observation that a camera is like any consumer product and should not be seen as an investment that may have value down the road. I beg to differ.

A Leica is like it or not a product with the following characteristics:

> Very expensive compared to its competitors ......(Generically a typical Japanese camera. I fully accept that a Canon D5II is more expensive than a M9)

> A recognisable brand even to people who have never used any camera other than a compact or GSM phone.

> A luxury brand ...with all that goes with that status (Think Royalty and celebrities across the world, Think Hermes, Think some of the world's best photographers)

 

Many people will buy a Rolex, a rare classic car, high end HiFi and probably many other items with a belief thtat the company is going to provide the level of support (service, firmware upgrades, and brand continuation) that will protect the initial high cost purchase ...at least to some extent.

 

Frankly I personally tend to buy very expensive items with well known names, but I expect my cost of ownership of these same items to have something more than zero after a few years of careful usage......To be honest I want to lose only a small amount if I resell ( and I usually keep stuff, as I fall in love etc.) .

 

To be clear:

> I am not into the mode of buying a rare Ferrari at say 250K$ and then sell it at 3M$ the following year. I regret that I am not that savy.

> I also am not in the mode of buying a M8 at £3k and then see it as a £2K item a few months later. I would expect that from Japanese consumer products but not Leica. I would not justify such a loss by saying that the M8 can still take great photos.

 

Anyhow that is my opinion . I think Leica have done a great job with M9 and they have probably protected their business for the medium term. I still value and enjoy my M8.

[SJP]

With consumer goods the term "investment" should be interpreted with a certain amount of flexibility:

 

Will I get the same 10% per annum (give or take a bit) as I would get with DJI? No.

 

Will the value fall through the floor like all digitals? Well.... yes to some extent but not quite so severely as the competition will do (in relative % of original price).

 

If I hang on to the thing for about 30 years will it have depreciated much? No probably not, if anything it will be worth slightly more than what you paid for it (including inflation/depreciation or whatever you like to call it). Anyway in 30 years time you will have forgotten that you spent anything at all - or you will be dead, or both.

 

Bottom line - Leicas cost money but thay are a lot better as an investment than an average car would be (collectibles excluded).

 

Disclaimer - we have no idea whether the historical data will hold true for the current digitals M's etc. I would expect so, but that is my personal guess.

[Fernmelder]

Me, lack of money:D

[Maggie_O]

When I've amassed the extra $3000-$4000 I need after M8 trade-in/sale, I'll buy one.

[gwelland]

If it's any consolation I'm sitting on the amassed cash pile but that doesn't help much when the dealer doesn't have the camera ...

 

I cracked and called my dealer to change my order (lucky #1 in queue - yeah!) back from grey to "whatever you've got" again. There I was thinking that grey would be unpopular and it turns into the new 'black' ...

[thrid]

My advice is to be happy with the M8.2. It's a beautiful and very capable camera and you can make some great images with it. It shouldn't matter that a newer, fancier camera is available as long as the M8.2 does for you what you expected of it when you made the purchase.

 

Also keep in mind that one particularly high minded Leica dealer in London, apparently really isn't an official Leica dealer...

 

But I agree, that sort of attitude is unacceptable and it doesn't matter what they are selling. If he's swamped with trade-ins there are far more polite ways to tell you that he's overloaded with cameras.

[Shootist]

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When I've amassed the extra $3000-$4000 I need after M8 trade-in/sale, I'll buy one.

 

Not sure you will get 3 to 4 thousand dollars for a used M8. If you get that much for a used M8 ask the buyer or dealer if I can sell or trade mine to them for the same amount.

 

You may get $2500, maybe (more like $2200 maybe), for the M8 and possibly $2750+/- for a M8.2 but I doubt any more then that. So think about saving up some more cash.

 

I suspect new M8.2 will be going for about 5 grand or less in about a month once the M9's are more available.

[dwind]

I can't use the m8 to it;s capabilities

I don't have the glass to justify a m9 - only 35, 50 and 90 crons

[Artorius]

I know the known problems so far, but my position is no Silver Chrome, no M9. My M8s are chrome, my M2/3, IIIc and IIIc stepper are all chrome. I won't buy a painted Leica. I will wait for the model I want. Besides, I don't need full frame, and with the prices falling now, I my be able to buy another 3 M8s for the price of the M9. My M8s are working perfect for me, so why change.

[gwelland]

I know the known problems so far, but my position is no Silver Chrome, no M9. My M8s are chrome, my M2/3, IIIc and IIIc stepper are all chrome. I won't buy a painted Leica. I will wait for the model I want. Besides, I don't need full frame, and with the prices falling now, I my be able to buy another 3 M8s for the price of the M9. My M8s are working perfect for me, so why change.

 

VERY hard to argue with that logic.

[hammam]

I spent over two hours with it today, for 7K, to be honest, I was hoping for about 1 stop better noise control. I am going to hang tight and see what the top reviewers put forth.

 

18 mpix on a FF sensor, what do you expect? This is no D3. Why, oh why, didn't they keep it at 12 mpix? Who is going to shoot billboard size photos with a Leica M? That's what MF digital backs are for, no?

[charlesphoto99]

Not sure you will get 3 to 4 thousand dollars for a used M8. If you get that much for a used M8 ask the buyer or dealer if I can sell or trade mine to them for the same amount.

 

You may get $2500, maybe (more like $2200 maybe), for the M8 and possibly $2750+/- for a M8.2 but I doubt any more then that. So think about saving up some more cash.

 

I suspect new M8.2 will be going for about 5 grand or less in about a month once the M9's are more available.

 

And that's for an absolutely mint one. I just let a chrome M8 which had scratches on the screen go, with a grip, for $1875. It's a tough market out there.

[adan]

I won't buy an M9 until Kodak pries Kodachrome from my cold, dead hands (Oh - wait......!)

I won't buy an M9 until Agfa pries Agfapan 100 from my cold, dead hands (Oh - wait....!)

I won't buy an M9 until the M8 pries my 21mm FoV from my cold, dead hands (Oh - wait....!)

I won't buy an M9 so long as I have a 35mm FoV and f/1.4 with my M8 (Oh - wait...!)

I won't buy an M9 until it can match the 18Mpixels of my Nikon 5000ED scanner (Oh - wait....!)

I won't buy an M9 until Leica can sell one for less than a 20+ Mpixel Nikon (Oh - wait...!)

 

No wait.

[lct]

The bride is too beautiful.

 

 

I won't buy an M9 until Kodak pries Kodachrome from my cold, dead hands (Oh - wait......!)

I won't buy an M9 until Agfa pries Agfapan 100 from my cold, dead hands (Oh - wait....!)

I won't buy an M9 until the M8 pries my 21mm FoV from my cold, dead hands (Oh - wait....!)

I won't buy an M9 so long as I have a 35mm FoV and f/1.4 with my M8 (Oh - wait...!)

I won't buy an M9 until it can match the 18Mpixels of my Nikon 5000ED scanner (Oh - wait....!)

I won't buy an M9 until Leica can sell one for less than a 20+ Mpixel Nikon (Oh - wait...!)

 

No wait.

[Speenth]

Why haven't I bought an M9?

 

On calm reflection after all the hype, I feel the M9 represents evolution rather than revolution (notwithstanding the technical achievement of a full frame sensor in the M-series body). As an enthusiastic amateur I have to conclude that marginal imaging and performance gains simply don't justify my returning a reliable, functioning M8 and laying down a further $4,000.

 

When my M8 dies, or when M9s get cheaper (and pigs fly) or most probably, when the M10 brings the revolutionary step forward, I'll make the change.

[ennjott]

The reason for me is simple; the system is far too expensive for yet another toy. Especially since the price is that high mostly because Leica as a small company cannot produce as cost effectively as the Asian manufacturers.

[jaapv]

So why was the Nikon RF more expensive than the Leica of the time?

[ulrikft]

So why was the Nikon RF more expensive than the Leica of the time?

 

Beacause mass production, the sizes of the companies and similar things have changed radically? the comparison is.. beyond naive.

[alun]

My pictures are not nearly good enough to justify so large an expense and they won't get better by that amount. It's out of my league.

 

Philipp -- How well put!! Even though I could (I think!!) afford to walk into a store today and put down my payment in hard cash it would still remain an unjustifiable expense. I feel that my M6 and M7 will have to suffice. I am also nervous, I think, of the learning curve involved. Every time I become *almost* adjusted to the idea of adopting digital, I read the M8/M9 forum or check other websites and find myself thinking that digital (even an M9) involves knowing about a load of things that don't really interest me. I wish I felt differently...but I don't. Right now, I would rather not take photographs at all than take digital photographs. Maybe that will change -- but I can't spend 5K to find out.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[mby]

A brief comment on evolution vs. revolution: please remember that when you have evolutionary progress with a product, it is much less likely that you will see major quirks popping up, as the technology/architecture/design is already proven and has 'just' been adapted/optimized; if you have a revolutionary new product, it is - most likely - much more prone to initial problems...

 

Just my personal 2 cents...

 

Best,

Michael