gdb Posted September 10, 2009 Share #21 Posted September 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dunk, I quite agree and am also very disappointed. Shakespeare already wrote "Much ado about nothing" and Leica is staging this play again.... The M9 is not a surprise, but it ruins the investment of all of those who spent much money on a M8 and 8.2. The question is now: for how long will the investment in a M9 valuable? The X1 is of minor interest with a fixed lens (not even a zoom), and is not yet available before next year, and the astronomical price for the S2 has already been discussed many times. And as for R loyal customers as many of us (me included...), well... why bother? Where is that bird of yours who senses dawn before us ? Gérard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Hi gdb, Take a look here where is the solution for "R" glass users?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted September 10, 2009 Share #22 Posted September 10, 2009 Investment? In a digital camera?? I still have an ownership title for the Eiffel Tower for sale - vastly reduced at 1 million Euro... And we were told before that the "solution"would nt be coming soon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 10, 2009 Share #23 Posted September 10, 2009 Dunk, I quite agree and am also very disappointed. Shakespeare already wrote "Much ado about nothing" and Leica is staging this play again.... And as for R loyal customers as many of us (me included...), well... why bother? Where is that bird of yours who senses dawn before us ? Gérard I think the bird has flown because he sensed the clouds will never clear ... and thus the dawn will stay very murky ... dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 10, 2009 Share #24 Posted September 10, 2009 The M9 is not a surprise, but it ruins the investment of all of those who spent much money on a M8 and 8.2. The question is now: for how long will the investment in a M9 valuable? A camera's true value is not the price you can get if you were to sell it. Its true value is the value of the pictures you make with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 10, 2009 Share #25 Posted September 10, 2009 Actually, I have not given up all hope of a new Leica R lens digital solution ... Leica seem to have a lot on their plate right now and can imagine resources are very stretched trying to get the M9 to the market place on time. Cheers dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicko101 Posted September 10, 2009 Share #26 Posted September 10, 2009 Actually, I have not given up all hope of a new Leica R lens digital solution ... Leica seem to have a lot on their plate right now and can imagine resources are very stretched trying to get the M9 to the market place on time. Yes! Thank you dunk! A Leica (forum) user is never as happy as when he (or she) is complaining. A full-frame M, quite amazing compact camera and, in the mean time, plenty of 'solutions' for R users to bide their time on a Canon, Pentax, Nikon or, heaven forbid, Foveon powered Sigma. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 10, 2009 Share #27 Posted September 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Actually, I have not given up all hope of a new Leica R lens digital solution ... I have, I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davephoto Posted September 10, 2009 Share #28 Posted September 10, 2009 I have, I'm afraid. Based on....? I really find it hard to believe that Leica has abandoned all of us who have made a serious investment in the R-series. I think...er, hope...that it's just a matter of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted September 10, 2009 Share #29 Posted September 10, 2009 so its dead? Yes the R appears to be dead so far... The M was once dead too and it's certainly alive and kicking now... but the truth is the "S" is probably the new R... I wouldn't hold my breath for another R anytime soon... Thankfully I have my DMR but I'm still struggling with my next purchase, hesitating between N* and C* for lack of the R10 or any R upgrade path. The M9 looks nice but I got rid of my Ms a long time ago and it's simply not an R. Not easy at all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted September 10, 2009 Share #30 Posted September 10, 2009 I have known this for a while now, Leica is not going to produce anything for the R as it's officially Redundant. Their DSLR hopes rest with the S system, so if you want to use a Leica DSLR you need to go down that road. Leica has put heeps of R&D into the S system and they don't want to jeopardize it with their exisiting reflex system so the R was S-imply S-acrificed. As for the M, Leica knows that the M devotee's will buy anything so their return on their investment will be more successful. Remember the so-called R solution only applies to Digital capture with the R system, as after all Leica's Interpretation of the FF Leica R is 100% film usage. Had Leica introduced an R digital think of it's cost, here in Australia the M9 is going to sell for around 11,000 AUS Dollars, the FF Leica R wouldn't have been any cheaper, so how many would purchess this body for this rediculous price. As for the devoted R lovers like myself, hope is not lost, there are other alternatives like Canon, much cheaper, better value for your money you can use most of the Leica R lenses plus their own L lenses and features like IS, AF etc etc, and there is no need to change the Leica mount. I remember having a chat with a photographer using Canon gear outside the Melbourne Law courts and he told me a CANON body and Leica R lenses would be untouchable. As for step down metering, Leica's new M9 still uses that method. So in the mean time I will continue to use my Leica Full Frame Film Cameras for some time yet. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 11, 2009 Share #31 Posted September 11, 2009 I remember having a chat with a photographer using Canon gear outside the Melbourne Law courts and he told me a CANON body and Leica R lenses would be untouchable. Had this Canon-using photographer ever touched a camera with a Kodak CCD and no AA filter? He seems to have been blinded to anything but Canon. As for step down metering, Leica's new M9 still uses that method. Yes but not with TTL viewing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted September 11, 2009 Share #32 Posted September 11, 2009 Another stop-gap solution that I believe shouldn't be overlooked is a Sigma SD-14 with an R mount. The Sigma uses the Foveon sensor, which is different to classic CCD and CMOS sensor because it captures true red, green and blue colour information in each photosite, has no Bayer array and no AA filter. More info in this thread. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 12, 2009 Share #33 Posted September 12, 2009 ...As for the devoted R lovers like myself, hope is not lost, there are other alternatives like Canon, much cheaper, better value for your money you can use most of the Leica R lenses plus their own L lenses and features like IS, AF etc etc, and there is no need to change the Leica mount... Hehe Ken, i did not expect to meet you in this digital boat my friend! Welcome to the club. I agree with you about Canon, as far as the original 5D is concerned. I did some tests last year comparing raw files from the M8 and 5D + Leica lenses. Differences looked nearly indiscernable through my raw converter (C1 v 4) with slightly less noise for the Canon and of course full frame and absence of moiré patterns, which is interesting for me as i often shoot pics like this (3.7MB, Telyt-R 180/3.4, f/3.4, 200 iso, handheld, vignetting adjusted in PP). No available train sorry . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted September 12, 2009 Share #34 Posted September 12, 2009 Hello LCT, Lovely shot of the Freighter. Even though I stated several times that I had no intention of buying a Leica Digital SLR because of cost, It still breaks my heart to see Leica abandoning the R system, as so many R devotees wanted an R digital Camera for their R lenses. So Leica has forced this on us to find an alternative, for myself it's a Canon, last week I played with one at the Camera Exchange here in Melbourne and I must say it was great to couple a 100mm 2.8 apo onto a Canon 5D-2 it was so simple and the images that it produced were stunning. I tried live view and worked great iris wide open of course but great for composing in poor light As for manual focusing and step down metering didn't bother me at all. At this time I had no intention of buying one but I felt great that my Beloved R Lenses can be used in future. However I did buy the Novoflex adapter for it's ready in waiting if need be. Canon will only get better with their sensors, their 5D-2 is priced under 4000$ Aus And to all the people I have spoken too that own one, simply love it. Hopefully I will borrow one shortly of a friend, I will then try the 28mm 2.8, 50mm f2, 100 mm 2.8 apo and the 80-200 f4. Ken. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/95561-where-is-the-solution-for-r-glass-users/?do=findComment&comment=1031079'>More sharing options...
veraikon Posted September 12, 2009 Share #35 Posted September 12, 2009 from todays edition of the german newspaper "Die Welt" Auch die lukrativen Mini-Digicams für den breiteren Markt sollen weiterhin bei Panasonic vom Band laufen. Gemeinsam sind zusätzliche Kompaktkameras geplant, "für unter 1000 Euro", sagt ein Leica-Produktmanager. Die eigenen Spezialisten tüfteln einstweilen über ganz neuen, kleineren Gehäusen, an die man sowohl Optiken aus der eingestellten R-Reihe als auch vom M-System ansetzen kann. Aber erst einmal müssen die Neuheiten Einnahmen bringen - laut Händlern sind die Vorbestellungen vielversprechend, die Produktion läuft auf Hochtouren. Leica hofft auf Erfolg in der Nische - Nachrichten welt_print - Wirtschaft - WELT ONLINE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 12, 2009 Share #36 Posted September 12, 2009 from todays edition of the german newspaper "Die Welt" Leica hofft auf Erfolg in der Nische - Nachrichten welt_print - Wirtschaft - WELT ONLINE Could someone please provide a translation of the salient points? Thanks dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 12, 2009 Share #37 Posted September 12, 2009 Could someone please provide a translation of the salient points?... Don't speak German sorry. Babel Fish translation: "Also the lucrative mini Digicams for the broader market is to come further at Panasonic off the line. Additional compact cameras are planned, together " for under 1000 Euro" , a Leica Produktmanager says. The own specialists fiddle meanwhile over completely new, smaller housings, to which one can set both optics from the adjusted R-row and of the M-system. But only once the novelties must bring incomes - according to dealers the Vorbestellungen are promising, production run on full speed." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 12, 2009 Share #38 Posted September 12, 2009 Another stop-gap solution that I believe shouldn't be overlooked is a Sigma SD-14 with an R mount. The Sigma uses the Foveon sensor, which is different to classic CCD and CMOS sensor because it captures true red, green and blue colour information in each photosite, has no Bayer array and no AA filter. More info in this thread. Pete. The Foveon sensor seems to be a solution worth considering. But I would want the delayed SD-15 camera which was announced 12 months ago as the SD-14 will surely soon be superseded by it. Cheers dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted September 12, 2009 Share #39 Posted September 12, 2009 I believe there is a possible Leica solution for SLR shooters with R glass. I spoke with certain persons at the NYC rollout & implored them to consider a digital "CL" solution for R glass. With the technology ascertained by the S development team, a simple camera body, with a FF sensor is all we need. No AF, as almost everyone I shoot with is a manual focus image maker. No Live view either. Keep it simple & give us the same range of high ISO as the S2. Since there's no film transport (like in the R8/R9) the camera can be relatively small & efficient. I believe it's up to this community of R shooters to offer Leica a constructive roadmap, not just vent our frustrations. A digital SLR is a market vastly larger than rangefinders and for Leica to abandon it completely doesn't compute, long term. I suggest that we work to build some consensus in helping to shape the future development of Leica SLR offerings. If the M9 does well & Leica returns to profitability, many things become possible. The technology platform of the S2 will no doubt spwan many alternatives. Most importantly, there's a long standing bond and affection among the R shooters & Leica, let's help to shape a possible solution, not just complain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted September 12, 2009 Share #40 Posted September 12, 2009 The Foveon sensor seems to be a solution worth considering. But I would want the delayed SD-15 camera which was announced 12 months ago as the SD-14 will surely soon be superseded by it. Cheers dunk Dunk, The SD-15 will use the same Fovean X3 sensor as the SD-14 but will also use the new Sigma 'True II' parallel processor with 3 individual cores, one dedicated to each colour channel to speed up processing. While this seems like a good idea it appears that the cores do not always synchronize well and vertical striping artifacts can occur and have already been noticed in pictures from the Sigma DP2, which uses the same processor. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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