Summaron 35mm f2.8 M lens

[Pyrogallol]

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I have two ltm copies 1694*** and 1629***. Both original 3’ 4” or 1 meter focussing.

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[Keith J]

HI FOLKS,

Will a Summaron f2.8, 35mm, code 11306, factory bayonet mount lens display the correct 35mm Frame lines on a Leica M11?

 

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, Keith J said:

HI FOLKS,

Will a Summaron f2.8, 35mm, code 11306, factory bayonet mount lens display the correct 35mm Frame lines on a Leica M11?

 

Yes. Nearly all Leica M bayonet lens will work with any M camera ever made (there are one or two that need care, like the dual range Summicron 50). 

Edited November 21, 2024 by pedaes

[Keith J]

Thank you,

I've read a huge volume of detail about the particulars of the 2.8 35mm Summarons, but have not found the answer to this very specific question.

[Michael Geschlecht]

3 hours ago, Keith J said:

Thank you,

I've read a huge volume of detail about the particulars of the 2.8 35mm Summarons, but have not found the answer to this very specific question.

Hello Keith,

Welcome to the Forum.

If the 11306 35mm f2.8 Summaron that you have still has its original factory installed bayonet adapter to key the 35/135 frame lines, then it should bring that pair up on an M11.

If someone has switched the original adapter for an adapter that brings up other frame lines you simply need to: Remove & save the tiny screw from the side of the adapter, (Don't lose the tiny screw. They are hard to come by.) and replace the adapter with an adapter that brings up the 35/135 frame lines. Then it should work fine.

The confusion exists because this lens is sometimes confused with its earlier version: The 35mm f3.5 Summaron. The 2 different aperture versions of the same focal length, with the same name, look somewhat similar.

And the earlier 35mm f3.5 Summaron came in 2 versions.

The first version of the 35mm f3.5 Summaron 11105 had a bayonet that keys the 50/75 frame lines because it was designed to be used on the M3, which was the first "M" mount camera & was the only "M" mount camera available for a number of years. This combination was used with an accessory viewfinder held in the accessory shoe next to the shutter speed dial.

At a later date, when the M2 & M1 were released, a second version of the lens was released. The 11305. This lens keyed the 35mm frame in the M2 & M1. And it keyed the 135mm frame on an M3. On an M11 it keys the 35/135 frame lines.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Edited November 22, 2024 by Michael Geschlecht

[Keith J]

That is a specific answer and is exactly the information I have searched all day to find. 

Thank you very much!

Keith

[wlaidlaw]

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Does not apply to Keith's lens but be very careful if buying the LTM version of the 2.8/35 Summaron. A number of sellers just remove the spectacles of the version designed to fit on an M3 (50 frame lines), where the spectacles removed the requirement to use an external viewfinder. This produces a lens with an L39mm x 26tpi thread mount but it will not RF focus correctly on a Barnack or on an M with a converter bayonet ring. The genuine LTM lenses are more valuable than the spectacles version, hence the temptation to present one as the other. The easy way to distinguish is that the genuine LTM version, only focuses to 1m whereas an unmounted spectacles version has focus marked to 0.7m. 

The 35/2.8 Summaron is an excellent lens and back before I swapped my 35 ASPH Summicron for an APO version, I took some comparative shots between the Summaron and ASPH Summicron on my M240 on a tripod. Other than very slightly softer corners, it was impossible to distinguish between the two lens' images. 

Wilson

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

The  reason that what Wilson wrote about the focusing mechanisms of 35mm f2.8, f2.0 & f1.4 (But not all f3.5) lenses is correct is:

The "goggled" lenses listed above were designed to allow the users of M3 cameras, which have a viewfinder which covers the field of a 50mm lens, to use & to present a viewing image for a 35mm lens.

An M3 rangefinder measures from Infinity to more or less 1 meter.

What The Wizards Of Wetzlar did was: Create an optical system to put on the front of any "M" camera which expands the angle of view by 1.5X. This is approximately 52 divided by approximately 35. A lot of Leitz/Leica 50mm lenses actually measure around 52mm.

Doing this also multiplies the optical focusing range of the rangefinder by 1.5X.

NOT 1.4X

So, when the MECHANICAL focusing mechanism on the CAMERA is moving from Infinity to 1 meter along the rangefinder cam.

The OPTICAL system in the RANGEFINDER measures from Infinity to approximately 0.65 meters.

Which is adjusted for by a differential cam in the lens that moves the lens out from the Infinity setting 1.5X the distance that the rangefinder cam indicates.

Which means: When the lens is used on an M3 focusing from Infinity to approximately 0.65 meters: The differential MECHANICAL mechanism inside the RANGEFINDER measures from Infinity to 1 meter: While, at the same time: The OPTICAL portion visible inside the range/viewfinder window moves from Infinity to approximately 0.65 meters. Which is what the engravings on the lens barrel are indicating.   

A differential mechanism inside the lens moves the lens unit as per the markings on the barrel.

When these lenses are used on M2/1 cameras & the later derivatives of those cameras: Everything works fine. The 50mm frame lines "pop" up.  The image captured in the 50mm frame will be the correct 35mm field of view.

This is 1 of the reasons that people at Leitz/Leica are called The Wizards of Wetzlar.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

The reason a lens as described just above does not focus accurately with the "goggles" removed is:

The rangefinder ROLLER in the CAMERA is indicating a movement from Infinity to approximately 1 meter.

While the OPTICAL UNIT is actually being moved from Infinity to approximately 0.65 meters. Which is also what the engravings on the lens barrel are indicating.

Which means: The point that the rangefinder is focused on is DIFFERENT than the point the lens unit is actually mechanically focused to.

Except when the lens is focused at Infinity.

The lens with the "goggles" removed can be used correctly with a DIFFERENT focusing system. Such as a Visoflex.

Best Regards,

Michael

[jaapv]

10 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Except when the lens is focused at Infinity.

Which is the reason that lenses with removable goggles (for reasons of easy storing in a camera bag) automatically lock at infinity when the goggles are removed.

These versions can be identified by a flat  "swallowtail" on the top of the mount with a locking pin in the middle. Take care, they are sometimes offered with the goggles missing and the locking mechanism forcibly broken. 

[wlaidlaw]

I think my 35/2.8 LTM Summaron has the neatest and most functional infinity lock of all LTM lenses. I was always surprised that when Leica issued the final LTM lenses in the special editions of 1999, they omitted incorporating infinity locks and in fact these lenses have no focus tabs at all not even bumps like Zeiss ZM lenses have. I have the two 50mm special edition lenses, the Summicron V-SE and Summilux III-SE and have put rather ugly but functional TAAB rubber rings with focus tabs, on the focus rings of both lenses. IMHO these very expensive when new lenses, should have been fitted with Summaron type focus tabs with integral infinity locks. It is quite difficult to mount and unmount an LTM lens without an infinity lock. 

Wilson

[Michael Geschlecht]

13 hours ago, jaapv said:

Which is the reason that lenses with removable goggles (for reasons of easy storing in a camera bag) automatically lock at infinity when the goggles are removed.

These versions can be identified by a flat  "swallowtail" on the top of the mount with a locking pin in the middle. Take care, they are sometimes offered with the goggles missing and the locking mechanism forcibly broken. 

Hello Jaap,

The 35mm lenses with REMOVABLE "goggles" are SOME of the 35mm f3.5 Summaron lenses.

ALL of the f2.8, f2.0 & f1.4 35mm lenses with "goggles" have "goggles" that are fixed in place that are NOT meant to be removed.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 25, 2024 by Michael Geschlecht

[Michael Geschlecht]

12 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I think my 35/2.8 LTM Summaron has the neatest and most functional infinity lock of all LTM lenses. I was always surprised that when Leica issued the final LTM lenses in the special editions of 1999, they omitted incorporating infinity locks and in fact these lenses have no focus tabs at all not even bumps like Zeiss ZM lenses have. I have the two 50mm special edition lenses, the Summicron V-SE and Summilux III-SE and have put rather ugly but functional TAAB rubber rings with focus tabs, on the focus rings of both lenses. IMHO these very expensive when new lenses, should have been fitted with Summaron type focus tabs with integral infinity locks. It is quite difficult to mount and unmount an LTM lens without an infinity lock. 

Wilson

Hello Wilson,

The 35mm f2.8 Summaron & the 35mm f2.0 Summicron, 8 element share similar lens barrels & other components. 

This means that pretty much of what you wrote about the 35mm f2.8 Summaron is the same on the 35mm f2.0 Summicron, 8 element.

They even take the same lens hoods , filters, caps, etc.

When you look at them side by side, pretty much the only difference is the diameters of the front & back optical components.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 25, 2024 by Michael Geschlecht

[jaapv]

8 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Jaap,

The 35mm lenses with REMOVABLE "goggles" are SOME of the 35mm f3.5 Summaron lenses.

ALL of the f2.8, f2.0 & f1.4 35mm lenses with "goggles" have "goggles" that are fixed in place that are NOT meant to be removed.

Best Regards,

Michael

Quite correct

 

 

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[luigi bertolotti]

11 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

 

The 35mm lenses with REMOVABLE "goggles" are SOME of the 35mm f3.5 Summaron lenses.

 

Michael, is it also correct to say that ALL the goggled f 3,5 Summaron have REMOVABLE goggles ?  I think yes, but not 100% sure... 🤔 i have 1360096 - black paint removable goggles, and 1555644 - black crackle removable goggles - but later items also exist... have no pics of items from later batch...

Edited November 25, 2024 by luigi bertolotti

[wlaidlaw]

I thought the only difference between removable and "non-removable" goggles was a set screw and possibly thread locking compound on the L39/26tpi joint. 

Wilson

[Pyrogallol]

This is my 35mm f3.5 Goggles Summaron that I bought in 1973.

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[Michael Geschlecht]

12 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I thought the only difference between removable and "non-removable" goggles was a set screw and possibly thread locking compound on the L39/26tpi joint. 

Wilson

 

7 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

This is my 35mm f3.5 Goggles Summaron that I bought in 1973.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Hello Wilson,

The small set screw you are writing about is the screw that holds a screw mount to bayonet mount adapter in place.

The screws that hold the "goggles" in place are the 2 screws on either side of the lens where the "goggles " are attached to the lens.

Shown here in Pyrogallol's very nice photo above.

Best Regards,

Michael

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Hallo,

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[Michael Geschlecht]

13 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Michael, is it also correct to say that ALL the goggled f 3,5 Summaron have REMOVABLE goggles ?  I think yes, but not 100% sure... 🤔 i have 1360096 - black paint removable goggles, and 1555644 - black crackle removable goggles - but later items also exist... have no pics of items from later batch...

Hello Luigi,

The references I looked at are not specific as to whether there are some lenses made with fixed "goggles", or not.

They do write that black paint "goggles" are earlier. And "crackle" finish "goggles" are later. With NO dividing serial number. As per Lager - Leica Illustrated Guide III.

Rogliatti - 60 years, writes that the last 35mm f3.5 Summarons of all types were made in 1960 with serial numbers above 1717000.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Michael Geschlecht