Summaron 35mm f2.8 M lens

[Michael Geschlecht]

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5 minutes ago, gyoung said:

My theory, entirely without the optical knowledge to back it up,  is that the goggles reduce the magnification of the system,  and thus the effective base length so that the cam needs to move the prisms in the rf differently, whether less or more I haven't a clue!

Gerry 

Hello Gerry,

The "goggles" expand the angle of view thru the range/viewfinder by 50%. In order to include this new expanded angle of view in the same window the image size has to be reduced accordingly to fit.

Best Regards,

Michael

[wlaidlaw]

1 hour ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

 

Both versions sometimes focus a little closer. As is sometimes the case with Leitz/Leica lenses of other focal lengths.

Best Regards,

Michael

Both of my 1999 special edition 50mm LTM lenses focus to around 0.9m, although the final mark is 1m. 

Wilson

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[willeica]

1 hour ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello William,

The M2 version focuses to 0.7 meters.

The M3 version with "goggles" focuses to 0.65 meters.

Both versions sometimes focus a little closer. As is sometimes the case with Leitz/Leica lenses of other focal lengths.

Best Regards,

Michael

Thanks Michael. I have 3 versions of the 2.8 Summaron, the M (goggles), the M (no goggles) and the LTM. They are all great lenses.

William

[Pecole]

I must confess I did not remember this interesting thread, and possibly missed it. Personally, I very much appreciated the 2.8/35 Summaron, and used it mainly on IIIf and IIIg, then on M2. It was also an occasion to go back to my archives and to select three images that can be of interest : both the screw and the M versions of the 2.8, then a comparison of the two different engravings encountered on the 3.5 : rounded as on nº1437363  or in two lines like on nº1564793.

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[Jul]

I read that among the M mount versions beside the minimum focus distance,

the fineness of the brass focusing helical thread was a giveaway of whether

the lens was a real M2 version or a "re-purposed" M3 version.

 

Does someone has a M2 version (probably from an early batch),

I mean not only looking like the M2 version but also
focusing like one, with the big threaded focusing helical usually found

on the M3 and on the original screw mount version or is there

a consensus among the collectors here that was written

in the first paragraph is true?

Maybe also check for late batch M3 version with fine threaded

focusing helical?

[Jul]

On 1/27/2019 at 12:36 AM, Jul said:

I read that among the M mount versions beside the minimum focus distance,

the fineness of the brass focusing helical thread was a giveaway of whether

the lens was a real M2 version or a "re-purposed" M3 version.

Nobody on this one ?

 

I would have bet some of the usual suspects roaming this place would have

wiped out my doubts about this in a matter of hours…

 

I have a seemingly very nice one in sight, without goggles and with 0.7m minimum focus

but with a big threaded helical and from a m3 only batch according to the wiki

(Yes, I know that these data are not 100% accurate).

The no-return policy doesn't help to overcome the shyness,

maybe I should just forget about it…

[handgun]

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I have a 2.8/35 Summaron s/n1903xxx Min focus 0.7m bayonet mount M2 version

I have removed the tiny screw from the bayonet mount, but can not remove the mount. I am assuming that it is a R/H tread ?

I would like to be able to use this lens on my 111g LTM as well as M2

On 11/17/2018 at 7:06 PM, ianman said:

There is one exactly like mine for sale at Leicashop with the following description:

But mine is in much better condition 🙂... now if I could just get that bloody adapter off...

[wlaidlaw]

10 minutes ago, handgun said:

I have a 2.8/35 Summaron s/n1903xxx Min focus 0.7m bayonet mount M2 version

I have removed the tiny screw from the bayonet mount, but can not remove the mount. I am assuming that it is a R/H tread ?

I would like to be able to use this lens on my 111g LTM as well as M2

I am sure folks have said the RF does not couple accurately for a de-goggled lens with an LTM camera, because the lens and its RF cam are set up to cope with the refraction of the image, with consequent lateral displacement, that takes place in the goggles lenses and coupling to an M3 rangefinder. 

Wilson

 

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Edited February 2, 2019 by wlaidlaw

[ianman]

51 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

I am sure folks have said the RF does not couple accurately for a de-goggled lens with an LTM camera, because the lens and its RF cam are set up to cope with the refraction of the image, with consequent lateral displacement, that takes place in the goggles lenses and coupling to an M3 rangefinder. 

Wilson,

I have mentioned before (maybe in another thread, I don't remember), these are not de-goggled lenses - mine isn't anyway - but factory built dual mount lenses. They have an LTM and a screwed on M adapter. I know there are issues with de-goggled lenses but mine doesn't present any such issues. The only problem I have is that I can't get the ruddy adapter off. I undone the tiny screw but couldn't budge the actual adapter... of course I didn't even think that it may be R/H thread 🙄

Ian

[Pyrogallol]

When mine was serviced the adaptor and it’s small screw were also serviced so that I could remove it if I wanted to, but I have not taken it off yet.

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[wlaidlaw]

20 minutes ago, ianman said:

Wilson,

I have mentioned before (maybe in another thread, I don't remember), these are not de-goggled lenses - mine isn't anyway - but factory built dual mount lenses. They have an LTM and a screwed on M adapter. I know there are issues with de-goggled lenses but mine doesn't present any such issues. The only problem I have is that I can't get the ruddy adapter off. I undone the tiny screw but couldn't budge the actual adapter... of course I didn't even think that it may be R/H thread 🙄

Ian

Ian, 

Could it be "glued" on? In which case if you took a very thin pointed artists' brush and dribbled a tiny amount of acetone round the edge of the adapter, that might soften the glue enough to unscrew. 

Wilson

[ianman]

16 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

Ian, 

Could it be "glued" on? In which case if you took a very thin pointed artists' brush and dribbled a tiny amount of acetone round the edge of the adapter, that might soften the glue enough to unscrew. 

Wilson

I hadn't thought of that either. To be honest I didn't really spend more than a couple of minutes trying. My screw mount camera needs a good CLA so I wasn't going to use the lens on it right away.

Many thanks for the suggestion!

[handgun]

I have managed to Un-Do the adapter from my 2.8/35 Summaron. With a cotton bud, dipped in lighter fuel, I wiped it around the adaptor where it buts up to the lens, and with the screw removed down the hole.

Then using an old M rear lens cap  and a rubber strap around the cap, with the body of the lens in my left hand, un-screwed the mount. 

Fits on my 111g and 111c and will focus to just under 1mt 

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[wlaidlaw]

The adapter ring to M mount looks noticeably thicker than 1mm. If this is the case and it focused properly on an M camera, surely it is going to back focus on an LTM. The relative flange focal distances are M 27.80mm LTM 28.80mm, hence the 1mm thickness of a standard LTM to M ring. It may be that this is just an optical illusion on your 2D photos. 

Wilson

[handgun]

12 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

The adapter ring to M mount looks noticeably thicker than 1mm. If this is the case and it focused properly on an M camera, surely it is going to back focus on an LTM. The relative flange focal distances are M 27.80mm LTM 28.80mm, hence the 1mm thickness of a standard LTM to M ring. It may be that this is just an optical illusion on your 2D photos. 

Wilson

The overall thickness of the adaptor is 3.4mm But it is Counter Bored inside 2.4mm So the effective flange is  1.0mm ( not very clear in the pictures)  I am waiting for a film to come back from developing. to prove the point.

Dave

[Pyrogallol]

Thanks for the pictures, first time I have seen what the lens and adaptor look like when separated.

[monza]

I have had several of the dual mount 35mm lenses, both Summaron and Summicron (version 1.)

The bayonet is removable after the tiny set screw is loosened (don't lose it!)

The bayonet is of course the proper dimension for accurate focus; it's came out of the Leitz factory, after all, why would it not?

This is the best version of these lenses; i.e., 0.7m close focus, and either bayonet or screw mount. The "screw mount only" versions only focus to 1m.

[luigi bertolotti]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 4:42 PM, handgun said:

I have managed to Un-Do the adapter from my 2.8/35 Summaron. With a cotton bud, dipped in lighter fuel, I wiped it around the adaptor where it buts up to the lens, and with the screw removed down the hole.

Then using an old M rear lens cap  and a rubber strap around the cap, with the body of the lens in my left hand, un-screwed the mount. 

Fits on my 111g and 111c and will focus to just under 1mt 

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Quite similar to the adapter I removed from my Super Angulon 21 f4 in BM (all of them are indeed SM+adapter with supertiny screw) : not surprisingly, it couples  right witht the RF of LTM cameras : mechanically it's just a more "refined" version of the standard ISOOZ & C set of adapters  

Edited November 22, 2019 by luigi bertolotti

[willeica]

On 3/1/2019 at 6:36 PM, Pyrogallol said:

Thanks for the pictures, first time I have seen what the lens and adaptor look like when separated.

Removing the adaptor is not recommended. Get one of each like I did.

William

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[AHAB]

I am happy I found this thread about the 35mm 2,8 Summaron lenses. I have a Summaron from the first batch of M-Mount lenses (#16150001to 1616000 from 1958) which should be the so called M2 Version with 0,7 near focus distance and the Leica adapter with the little screw mentioned in some of the comments.

1. Question #1 - did I classify this lens correct as M2 version?
2. Question #2 - I do not understand the helical thread thing concerning my lens?
3. Question #3 - is my lens anything special

I am very sorry but I find it a bit confusing as it is not so easy to find informations about this lens - at least for me

Thanks for helping my finding out more details about my lens.