JHAG Posted February 11, 2009 Share #101 Posted February 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Quite Rolls Royce and Bentley were symbols of British industry. Look what happened to them... I would drive a Continental GT anytime. Ford bought Jaguar. Older friends of mine drove pre-Ford Jags that were running amok every 1000 miles. My XJ8, post-Ford, running like a Swiss watch, is still a Jaguar in my book. Panasonic are not stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Hi JHAG, Take a look here Panasonic in talks to buy Leica from Mr. Kaufmann. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
PeterP Posted February 11, 2009 Share #102 Posted February 11, 2009 We might have to rebrand our cameras PeterP Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/76534-panasonic-in-talks-to-buy-leica-from-mr-kaufmann/?do=findComment&comment=806242'>More sharing options...
JHAG Posted February 11, 2009 Share #103 Posted February 11, 2009 You like it or not but Leica is a luxury brand. French luxury brands like Dior, Hermes or Saint-Laurent have been bought by large groups. So what ? haute couture remains haute couture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted February 11, 2009 Share #104 Posted February 11, 2009 My ear to the ground source claims that Leica wants to distance themselves from Panasonic as they did from Olympus and produce all German products again not Japanese hybrids. Maybe the banker got it wrong and Leica is talking to Panasonic about going their own way. An 18 mm F3.8 sounds way cool. Drool factor of 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted February 11, 2009 Share #105 Posted February 11, 2009 This link, already posted on the German language forum (but in English), is interesting: [interview] Matsushita Discusses Development of Mirrorless Digital SLR -- Tech-On! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted February 11, 2009 Share #106 Posted February 11, 2009 Suppose Apple Computer would be interested in Leica. Would that be better? Jan PS1 Perhaps Cupertino listens in this forum. PS2 We can launch news too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkstar2004 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #107 Posted February 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) That would be the end of Leica. It would become a name on a lens just like Zeiss, Voigtlander or Rollei. Not very good news.... The end of another traditional German Company - Agfa, Märklin, Rosenthal, Bremer Vulkan etc. Andreas Doesn't sound good at all, if it happens. I would look for Panasonic to first off "cut costs" - which means compromising the quality and craftsmanship of the lenses & camera bodies in every possible way to "be more cost effective" (AKA maximize corporate profits). This would mean pre-Panasonic buyout lenses would be extremely highly sought after, driving prices to the ionosphere and making "new" lenses & bodies the trinkets of wannabe photographers & other various & sundry posers (remember the Hermes - AKA Herpes - buyers?) Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magd0328 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #108 Posted February 12, 2009 Does anyone know how the other companies in Kaufmann's group are performing? That may shed some light on the matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 12, 2009 Share #109 Posted February 12, 2009 About 95% (?) of the camera is made and assembled in Portugal If you go to Solms, you can see the workers there fixing the final parts and wiping off the fingerprints - just enough to qualify for a "Made in Germany" engraving on the back. It's been that way for many years, from what I understand. Not exactly what i saw when i was there. The M8 chassis is made in Portugal because of the magnesium. Which can NOT be anywhere near the optics dept. , for that matter not even food cooking. Which BTW was brought in from Wetzler. Lenses from what i seen the optics are all German the mechanicals are German made also from another company, which I believe Dr. Kaufman owns . There are a lot of his companies that actually supply parts to Leica Solms. So a lot stays in the family. Obviously parts like the LCD are from other companies, Sensor from Kodak and so on. But they are assembled in Solms. This is the M8. Factory service is also in Solms as well as shipping and receiving all come out of that plant. Let's not forget all the engineering and design which also is there. So made in Germany actually does stick to the M8 pretty well. Like most companies many things come from many places. I believe from talking to the Leica folks most of what they buy they do try and get from German companies for there parts and such. So if you went by a line item list i would say most heavily weighed by Germany or a leica subsidiary like Portugal. Now this is what I saw and understand from the Leica folks there. Several forum members here where also along with me on this trip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalLee2001 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #110 Posted February 12, 2009 I am new to this forum. I am glad to see that there are just as many posts concerning the future of Leica as there are in the US forums!! I think that this could be a good thing. Leica can use the expertise in electronics, and focus on other things. In some of the US based forums everyone talks about the success of Apple, Porsche and Harley Davidson as niche manufactures who have thrived. Apple-well the IPOD saved them. Porsche and H-D they fixed their suspect quality and have made judicious use of 3rd party content. How much VW technology is in your porsche. I have a 4S and it doesn’t bother me. I have both an M and R; I have stopped investing in the R because of my question if it will be around. At least that question will be solved! I think that there new S product could be very exciting and is just what they need-a game changer. I do hope that the R stays around AND is upgraded. Leica needs to get out of the "collectors ghetto" and be seriously considered by pro's and serious amateurs (and no that does not mean that they give up on film, I hate digital-but they need to be successful in this market) These type of acquisitions if done correctly can go very well or very bad. And of course the best that may come out of this is that we could devote so much time on internet forums to discussing photography and the best way to use the equipment vs the future of Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted February 12, 2009 Share #111 Posted February 12, 2009 The relevant piece in the link I posted above was a direct quote from Matsushita executives. In September last year, they stated: "...we have a plan to sell Leica-branded products, which are characterized by very high image quality." See: [interview] Matsushita Discusses Development of Mirrorless Digital SLR -- Tech-On! The executives are commenting on the development of the G1 Lumix camera. They go on to talk about rangefinders, which they say are too specialized to produce themselves. It would seem clear, from all readily available evidence, that the relationship between the two companies remains strong, and the benefits accruing to each are mutual. Surely it would make little commercial sense to submerge the Leica brand within the larger company. As has been said many times over, Leica is special. It's different and individual -- just like those who use it. The brand also reflects a commitment to quality sadly lacking in the majority of today's mass-produced throwaway products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted February 12, 2009 Share #112 Posted February 12, 2009 Not exactly what i saw when i was there. The M8 chassis is made in Portugal because of the magnesium. Which can NOT be anywhere near the optics dept. , for that matter not even food cooking. Which BTW was brought in from Wetzler. Lenses from what i seen the optics are all German the mechanicals are German made also from another company, which I believe Dr. Kaufman owns . There are a lot of his companies that actually supply parts to Leica Solms. So a lot stays in the family. Obviously parts like the LCD are from other companies, Sensor from Kodak and so on. But they are assembled in Solms. This is the M8. Factory service is also in Solms as well as shipping and receiving all come out of that plant. Let's not forget all the engineering and design which also is there. So made in Germany actually does stick to the M8 pretty well. Like most companies many things come from many places. I believe from talking to the Leica folks most of what they buy they do try and get from German companies for there parts and such. So if you went by a line item list i would say most heavily weighed by Germany or a leica subsidiary like Portugal. Now this is what I saw and understand from the Leica folks there. Several forum members here where also along with me on this trip. When all is said and done , who really cares where the camera body or its components are made . What is more important is , reliability, performance and hopefully durability, as well as continued support. As long as sensors and components are on a par with industry standards the end results are a function of the ability and talent of the user. PeterP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted February 12, 2009 Share #113 Posted February 12, 2009 See: [interview] Matsushita Discusses Development of Mirrorless Digital SLR -- Tech-On! Are you planning to cooperate with Leica Camera AG of Germany on Micro Four Thirds cameras? Yes. We prioritized modest price in the development of the "Lumix G lens," an interchangeable lens that we have just announced. However, we have a plan to sell Leica-branded products, which are characterized by very high image quality. Are you considering making rangefinder cameras, like the ones developed by Leica, based on the Micro Four Thirds System standard? There aren't enough interchangeable lenses available, and that's the problem. When a telephoto lens is used, an image in the finder is difficult to see because it's too small. With a super-wide angle lens, the entire shooting area does not fit in the finder. That's why users of rangefinder cameras are those who really like cameras. For other users, they are difficult to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted February 12, 2009 Share #114 Posted February 12, 2009 Two of the all time favorite "Leica" digital cameras are/were made by Panasonic: The D-Lux 4 and Digilux 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted February 12, 2009 Share #115 Posted February 12, 2009 Earlier I said, "R U M O R". One thing that hasn't been mentioned is not a rumor is the brand spanking new Leica (or Leitz) Park that is currently being built in Wetzlar. This is the new Leica headquarters, development, and I believe manufacture, and assembly location, and the pictures were on this site some time ago. Most companies are hurting in this economic boil-over. many of them are ginormous when compared to tiny Leica. Kaufmann may have lost his fortune as others have, who knows? He just does not seem like the kind to give up on something that he believes in so strongly and I'm placing my hat in his plan for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #116 Posted February 12, 2009 "Rubs eyes and takes an asprin".............. Guys, you are focusing on this too much, go out and make some photographs.... ....It's not anything you can control....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquinius Posted February 12, 2009 Share #117 Posted February 12, 2009 ....It's not anything you can control....... I agree. Marco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted February 12, 2009 Share #118 Posted February 12, 2009 "...to sell Leica-branded products, which are characterized by very high image quality." Everything apart, that's a very sensible way of saying what matters. Very high image quality and not where or how it is build. Or by whom. The Digilux 2 is a great example of both (technically) high image quality from lens and sensor and software, but what makes the camera a classic is the simple handling. In short, it's the philosophy behind that is for very high image quality that make it work. Leica happen to know this philosophy and put it in lenses and picture files. Others have image quality mixed up with image size, speed, automatics, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #119 Posted February 12, 2009 Are you considering making rangefinder cameras, like the ones developed by Leica, based on the Micro Four Thirds System standard? There aren't enough interchangeable lenses available, and that's the problem. When a telephoto lens is used, an image in the finder is difficult to see because it's too small. With a super-wide angle lens, the entire shooting area does not fit in the finder. That's why users of rangefinder cameras are those who really like cameras. For other users, they are difficult to use.[/i] I suggest to use a G1 and a M8 and than tell which one is more difficult to use and with which viewfinder it is more convenient to shoot. And here we have a 3 year old M8 sensor which delievers at least as good IQ as a brand new g1 sensor. Its just my opinion - but as a user of several camera systems, I am still convinced, that if 10MP is enough resolution for you and if you do not go over 640 ISO the M8 with its lenses delievers the best IQ of all digital cameras available up to a sensor size of 24x36mm. The only exception would be the Leica DMR. The "favorite" digital Leica for me is the M8(.2) and then the DMR. The Digilux and whatever are nice little cameras but IMO are not that much different/better than a Canon or Ricoh or whatever. Now what I miss is - as an addition to the M8- to put such a sensor, and such excellent optics into a modern SLR-body and AF-lenses. However I would think that this hould not be too difficult. Leica could just copy a Nikon or Canon or Sony, or a little bit from each, put thier excellent glass in new clothes-thats it. I woulkd think Image quality/ the result is still more important than the innovation-factor. Regards, Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebert Posted February 12, 2009 Share #120 Posted February 12, 2009 The first rule investment bankers stick with is confidentiality (even if I know some who talk too much). The way the post in DP review is drafted does not seem to me of great trust (I know someone who heard on a conf call,...). By the way, when you take into consideration the current economic conditions of big electronic companies in Japan, I would bet that any of their external growth plans are frozen for 2009 (even if Leica is not a very big piece to be eaten up by a giant like Panasonic). IMO, the real question is : in which financial situation is Leica today? What is their cash position? You know today, some beautiful assets are for sale at low price because of cash shortage and weak financial position of the company and/or of its shareholders (how leveraged are they? what is Leica's shareholders' indebtedness level, are they still in line with their financial convenants towards their (German?) banks?) We name it "distressed" M&A. I hope this is not the case for Leica... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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