IkarusJohn Posted May 16 Author Share #161 Posted May 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hmm, well, it sounds like the base M11 is the “classic” M they want. This is something different. 6 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said: Because camera purchasers endless bang on about colour science. In other words what the natively files look like. Check out the endless whining about the monochrome cameras which produce flat files to preserve detail and need correcting. Not pretty out of camera but very flexible. People want the SOOC files to look great & have a look. The look they’ve chosen suits some but not others. Just depends how many standard deviations from the mean one is and in which direction! Leica and other makers take a punt on people saying ‘the Leica colours are just amazing’ and I suspect their market research said the colours they produced fitted the bill. Of course if they didn’t do market research then they should have! The flat files of the Monochrom (particularly the first version, Henri) were what persuaded my to buy the camera in the first place. I don’t think the monochrome cameras are the place for those wanting JPEGs. Conversely, the files out of the Hasselblad X2D are the best starting point for colour digital negatives I’ve ever seen. Way better than anything I’ve had from a Leica. But then, it’s only a starting point. I only use JPEGs out of my phone … 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 16 Posted May 16 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here M Classic?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted May 16 Share #162 Posted May 16 The files from most any high DR camera tend to be flat. The M10 Monochrom, coupled with Adobe’s default tone curve started that way. Then, in response to complaints (from folks who didn’t understand), Adobe built in an S curve instead. Same files, just new default. 🤪 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 16 Share #163 Posted May 16 (edited) 2 hours ago, Corius said: ..."Classic M" has no meaning beyond "It's the one I really liked"... Hmmm...I'm not sure whether you are attempting sarcasm. It is possible that, where the description "Classic" is concerned, we may(*) have very different conceptions of the importance and value of our own personal preferences. Philip. * See Line 1. Edited May 16 by pippy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 16 Author Share #164 Posted May 16 20 minutes ago, pippy said: Hmmm...I'm not sure whether you are attempting sarcasm. It is possible that, where the description "Classic" is concerned, we may(*) have very different conceptions of the importance and value of our own personal preferences. Philip. * See Line 1. Much like meßsuch, it’s not about the name, it’s about the concept. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 16 Share #165 Posted May 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said: Much like meßsuch, it’s not about the name, it’s about the concept. Exactly, John, so in terms of the qualities you put forth in your OP those engineers back at Wetzlar might concentrate on providing an M-Classic which offers On 5/9/2025 at 11:19 PM, IkarusJohn said: ...the most effective, stripped back combination of components which work well together, but give you nothing more that excellent direct control of ISO, focus, aperture and shutter speed, with a DNG file....Nothing more, preferably in black paint, no red dot, traditional lettering on the top plate... As we both know this exact camera already exists (albeit with only a 24 mp sensor).. 😺 Philip. Edited May 16 by pippy 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 17 Author Share #166 Posted May 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, pippy said: As we both know this exact camera already exists (albeit with only a 24 mp sensor).. Ah yes, but my idea is even simpler! Not an M(262), M10, M11 or M12 variant, but an M-D (just like the M-A & MP). The only thing which will obviously change over the years is the sensor and processor as needed. I was thinking about the rest of it, and felt that there is no benefit of SD cards over internal storage. So, no SD card slot, just a pop-out battery, no baseplate, USB charging and file transfer. I’m still on the fence about WiFi - it needs to be reliable and fast, otherwise, don’t bother. Who needs settings when you have DNG files only and AWB? That said, I use WiFi with my M10-D, SL, TL2 and X2D quite a lot for remote triggering … Edited May 17 by IkarusJohn 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted May 17 Share #167 Posted May 17 Advertisement (gone after registration) 11 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said: Ah yes, but my idea is even simpler! Not an M(262), M10, M11 or M12 variant, but an M-D (just like the M-A & MP). The only thing which will obviously change over the years is the sensor and processor as needed. I was thinking about the rest of it, and felt that there is no benefit of SD cards over internal storage. So, no SD card slot, just a pop-out battery, no baseplate, USB charging and file transfer. I’m still on the fence about WiFi - it needs to be reliable and fast, otherwise, don’t bother. Who needs settings when you have DNG files only and AWB? That said, I use WiFi with my M10-D, SL, TL2 and X2D quite a lot for remote triggering … Wifi is just a nice addition.. especially in the realm of M11 world.. it is fast enough for raw when needed.. and surprisingly i use the bluetooth LE when covering a family events and friends! Background transfer wow.. extension to my iphone as a camera but thats me.. with battery life like now, well i will trade for a more simplicity without usb c and baseplate but i want it in brass pls 😃 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted May 17 Share #168 Posted May 17 14 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said: Leica will never change the image quality/color post release. They did with the 240, for what it's worth. I'd have appreciated it if they did with the M11 as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted May 17 Share #169 Posted May 17 A classic M can only be a film camera with a digital sensor in my mind. No other function other than exposure controls and really fast to use. No wifi, no Visoflex. No screen. No standby wake time, no metering choices, no jpeg. Just a bare ass box that takes digital pics quickly. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted May 17 Share #170 Posted May 17 16 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said: Interestingly after a year of M’s (and occasional use of R5m2 when needed) I just bought a used Q3. Went out to take a few shots of the local church with a water meadow of buttercups in front. Using the M was bliss and easy, the Q I kept moving the focus point with my nose (yes I know I can turn off touch AF) and all in all was less in the zone/satisfying. Both cameras will of course have great output. Today the Q3 will have better shots with the 28mm f1.4 than the Rokkor 40mm F2. I did find myself hankering after the 35mm summilux though. I’m going to walk across the fields to the pub in the local town tonight. On the walk an M would be better. In the pub a Q. Especially after a pint! Select the tool for the job. I’m very definitely nearly as quick as AF with an easy scene and much quicker than anything other than single point AF with a complex one. Something moving the Q is going to beat me but it would be knocked out of the park by my R5M2 with eye tracking and eye subject selection. My main takeaway is thank goodness Leica do fill these niches of RF cameras, EVF’s that go on them, SL’s, Q’s, monochrome sensors. Long may it continue! I took an M and the Q3 to the pub. Turns out that even then I preferred the M to the Q! Pre-focussing with narrow DOF and zone on the M worked better/less intrusively than AF on the Q. I’m learning the AF modes at the moment so that may change but it re-enforces to me the ongoing utility of rangefinders. The M11D with a Rokkor 40mm was also a much smaller package! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 17 Share #171 Posted May 17 (edited) 6 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: Ah yes, but my idea is even simpler! Not an M(262), M10, M11 or M12 variant, but an M-D... ...no baseplate... Yes; it was the M-D Typ-262 that I had in mind. As far as the removeable baseplate is concerned? Every Leica from 1925 to the M10 had a removeable baseplate. What feature of any Leica has a greater claim to being seen as 'classic' than that?... I remember reading that when the engineers at Wetzlar were considering details of the forthcoming M11 it was the proposal to ditch the removeable baseplate which proved to be the most contentions and difficult to resolve. Even here in the Forum there were (gently) heated exchanges from partisan parties both for- and against the decision which, ultimately, was taken. Philip. Edited May 17 by pippy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 17 Author Share #172 Posted May 17 31 minutes ago, pippy said: What feature of any Leica has a greater claim to being seen as 'classic' than that?... For film, it had a point. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted May 17 Share #173 Posted May 17 If the camera is to be completely independent of external connections, how should it be possible to manually select uncoded lenses? This wasn't possible with the M-D Typ-262, was it? It's certainly a feature I wouldn't want to be without. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 17 Share #174 Posted May 17 3 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said: For film, it had a point. But surely there's something comfortingly familiar about 'Old-Fangled Ways'?......😸...... Then again; just because the original Leica 1(A) didn't have strap-lugs it doesn't mean that the lack of such features is a Good Idea. Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 17 Share #175 Posted May 17 (edited) 3 hours ago, evikne said: If the camera is to be completely independent of external connections, how should it be possible to manually select uncoded lenses? A classic M is a Leica Messsucher on which Cosina and China made lenses are strikt verboten 😄 Edited May 17 by lct Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted May 17 Share #176 Posted May 17 1 hour ago, lct said: A classic M is a Leica Messsucher on which Cosina and China made lenses are strikt verboten 😄 But what about Leica's own lenses that are not coded? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkm Posted May 17 Share #177 Posted May 17 And what’s about the Zeiss 2.8/15mm which is Made in Oberkochen? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 17 Share #178 Posted May 17 6 minutes ago, evikne said: But what about Leica's own lenses that are not coded? Codable lenses are modern and uncodable are classic. Too simple this classic history 😄 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted May 17 Share #179 Posted May 17 7 hours ago, username said: I'd have appreciated it if they did with the M11 as well. No kidding. One can go to the M11 photos thread and it's still a constant parade of magenta tinged images three years on. In the end it's up to the user to make it right, but considering the non-effort many put into their images after taking them and before posting them, Leica should have gotten it right out of the box. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DadDadDaddyo Posted May 17 Share #180 Posted May 17 (edited) I'm really not understanding.... It sounds to me that folks are saying that they want a Leica that doesn't include any features they don't usually use.... and that this would make the camera "classic." What makes any of the M-series cameras I own or have owned "classic" isn't the set of features they've added over time; rather it's the characteristics they've retained over time, alongside and despite the new features added. If we allow that getting rid of the reliance on film doesn't disqualify a digital M from being considered "classic," I'm not sure what else there is to say... In other words, in my (perhaps) overly simplistic way of appreciating the M, they're all "classic." Any newfangled doo-whats they've added; no problem: if I don't need them in a given situation then I don't use them. But I don't wish they weren't there... It's what they've retained, throughout, that matters. Edited May 17 by DadDadDaddyo minor amplification Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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