M Classic?

[IkarusJohn]

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With all the talk of an MEVF, IBIS and the like, potentially making the already complex M11 even more feature filled, what chance is there of Leica making a digital M in the same paradigm as a digital MP or M6?  A purist digital M, for those who like to add a little dismissive connotation.

This isn’t an invitation to spec such, but the question - is Leica developing such a camera?  Best sensor for the use (not just the best sensor), best dynamic range, all packaged in what Leica used to do so well - the most effective, stripped back combination of components which work well together, but give you nothing more that excellent direct control of ISO, focus, aperture and shutter speed, with a DNG file.

Nothing more, preferably in black paint, no red dot, traditional lettering on the top plate.

My order is in for a Monochrom D version!

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[pgh]

52 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

With all the talk of an MEVF, IBIS and the like, potentially making the already complex M11 even more feature filled, what chance is there of Leica making a digital M in the same paradigm as a digital MP or M6?  A purist digital M, for those who like to add a little dismissive connotation.

This isn’t an invitation to spec such, but the question - is Leica developing such a camera?  Best sensor for the use (not just the best sensor), best dynamic range, all packaged in what Leica used to do so well - the most effective, stripped back combination of components which work well together, but give you nothing more that excellent direct control of ISO, focus, aperture and shutter speed, with a DNG file.

Nothing more, preferably in black paint, no red dot, traditional lettering on the top plate.

My order is in for a Monochrom D version!

My M10-D is the closest thing to that I think they make. If I had to nitpick then yea, a mono option would be nice, and so would a sensor that’s maybe a bit better with dynamic range and maybe like 30-32 mp or something. And maybe a meter I could get a little bit more consistent results from. And maybe not a reliance on Fotos for some set up options. 

But really, I think your answer is very much nearly answered by the M10-D. 

Not the M11-D. That sensor is just too much resolution for no IBIS. (Best sensor for the use, as you say, is pertinent here). And I just don’t love the way it renders either. 

As for the supposed EVF M, I have to ask why? This is better handled by the SL series. Throw on an M adapter and there you have it. Sure the form isn’t exactly the same. It’s only easier to hold for precise EVF focusing work and weighs within grams of the same setup on a M. 

Edited May 9 by pgh

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, pgh said:

My M10-D is the closest thing to that I think they make. If I had to nitpick then yea, a mono option would be nice, and so would a sensor that’s maybe a bit better with dynamic range and maybe like 30-32 mp or something. And maybe a meter I could get a little bit more consistent results from. And maybe not a reliance on Fotos for some set up options. 

But really, I think your answer is very much nearly answered by the M10-D. 

Not the M11-D. That sensor is just too much resolution for no IBIS. (Best sensor for the use, as you say, is pertinent here). And I just don’t love the way it renders either. 

As for the supposed EVF M, I have to ask why? This is better handled by the SL series. Throw on an M adapter and there you have it. Sure the form isn’t exactly the same. It’s only easier to hold for precise EVF focusing work and weighs within grams of the same setup on a M. 

May be even closer to what m262D was … i’d love that

[Crem]

3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

With all the talk of an MEVF, IBIS and the like, potentially making the already complex M11 even more feature filled, what chance is there of Leica making a digital M in the same paradigm as a digital MP or M6?  A purist digital M, for those who like to add a little dismissive connotation.

This isn’t an invitation to spec such, but the question - is Leica developing such a camera?  Best sensor for the use (not just the best sensor), best dynamic range, all packaged in what Leica used to do so well - the most effective, stripped back combination of components which work well together, but give you nothing more that excellent direct control of ISO, focus, aperture and shutter speed, with a DNG file.

Nothing more, preferably in black paint, no red dot, traditional lettering on the top plate.

My order is in for a Monochrom D version!

I don't know if they are developing it, but if I had to guess they are heavily focused on the M12 and not a classic product. I suspect their thinking is that if you want a classic then buy a used M10 line or even earlier. Leica seems very much fixated on fast lenses, APO lenses, and adding technology to the digital M (like a EVF, IBIS, etc) to drive the upgrade cycle. I think a classic digital M doesn't really fit into their marketing plans. All that said, I would love to see a classic digital M like a M10-P with some updates such as the battery, USB C charging, and a modern 24MP sensor.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Crem said:

I don't know if they are developing it, but if I had to guess they are heavily focused on the M12 and not a classic product. I suspect their thinking is that if you want a classic then buy a used M10 line or even earlier. Leica seems very much fixated on fast lenses, APO lenses, and adding technology to the digital M (like a EVF, IBIS, etc) to drive the upgrade cycle. I think a classic digital M doesn't really fit into their marketing plans. All that said, I would love to see a classic digital M like a M10-P with some updates such as the battery, USB C charging, and a modern 24MP sensor.

I’m not so sure about that.

For many, the M11 just has too much going on, not in keeping with the traditional M paradigm, and its launch was not ideal.  Most M users (guessing here) buy them for their clarity of function.

[Crem]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m not so sure about that.

For many, the M11 just has too much going on, not in keeping with the traditional M paradigm, and its launch was not ideal.  Most M users (guessing here) buy them for their clarity of function.

I absolutely hope they come out with some sort of classic digital. Sign me up. I’m just not holding my breath for it. I definitely think there is interest in a stripped down digital rangefinder. Two things we can be sure of is that the m12 will cost more than the m11 and it will have more features, not less. So there is room for something more classic. Do you want it to have aperture priority mode? Using your film analogy I would think it would be more like a m7 and less like a m6 in order to increase total sales. 

Edited May 10 by Crem

[evikne]

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I'm afraid they mean that if you want an M “classic”, then buy an analog model. But it's quite contradictory that it has become so. Because why did they even start putting a digital sensor inside the legacy body in the first place, if it wasn't to continue the analog feel into the digital age?

Edited May 10 by evikne

[IkarusJohn]

6 hours ago, evikne said:

I'm afraid they mean that if you want an M “classic”, then buy an analog model. But it's quite contradictory that it has become so. Because why did they even start putting a digital sensor inside the legacy body in the first place, if it wasn't to continue the analog feel into the digital age?

I love my M-A, but there is undoubtedly convenience in a digital version.

[FrozenInTime]

I would be happy with a classic digital with minimal features and modern low pixel count, high dynamic range sensor with dual ISO. It would only need a low/high ISO switch and no need for full 100-128000 settings dial; as long as there was a small e.g. 32x64 pixel in-viewfinder sub display overlay that showed a raw histogram on playback ( no need for a full image EVF or rear LCD ).

[ronaldc]

M11 is as simple as it goes for a digital M, not much diff than a m240. Use a camera like a Fuji x100vi and see the difference, talk about so much going on.. 

[Photoworks]

Do you think Leica can afford another production camera, "Classic"

They have been working on the M12 for years and keeping up with the times.'

 

At the 100 celebration, there were many photographers carrying cameras 1,2, and 3. Surprisingly to me was the number of M cameras in comparison to Q and SL. I would estimate 80% M-cameras.
 

That said, a classic edition with fewer options would probably be more expensive because of the smaller market for it. Would you pay $15k for it?

[pedaes]

47 minutes ago, ronaldc said:

M11 is as simple as it goes for a digital M,

Agree totally. It can be as simple or complex as user wants.

[Luke_Miller]

8 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

That said, a classic edition with fewer options would probably be more expensive because of the smaller market for it. Would you pay $15k for it?

No.  I would want one, but not at that price. I stopped buying Ms with my M240/M246. If I had to buy another it would be a used M10, but an M11 is too different from what I want in an M.  I have all the technology I want in my Q and SL bodies.  If I need more I have the Nikon Z8. My first M was an M4.  I loved that camera, but eventually I stopped shooting film and went digital. When I bought the M8.2 I felt I now had a digital version of the M4.  Went throught the M9 and M240 progression and stopped there.  While there was nothing in the M10 that I didn't want, the differences were not enough to persuade me to move to it.  The M11 is another story.  It is too far from its analog roots. 

[Photoworks]

5 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said:

No.  I would want one, but not at that price. I stopped buying Ms with my M240/M246. If I had to buy another it would be a used M10, but an M11 is too different from what I want in an M.  I have all the technology I want in my Q and SL bodies.  If I need more I have the Nikon Z8. My first M was an M4.  I loved that camera, but eventually I stopped shooting film and went digital. When I bought the M8.2 I felt I now had a digital version of the M4.  Went throught the M9 and M240 progression and stopped there.  While there was nothing in the M10 that I didn't want, the differences were not enough to persuade me to move to it.  The M11 is another story.  It is too far from its analog roots. 

That kind of pro says that everyone is different, and a challenge for Leica to design a camera for the next 10 years. 
Unfortunately, keeping up with tech and respecting tradition is an endless struggle.

I am very happy with all the options and image quality I get out of the M11, when it is not a job, the M11 goes out the door, and SLs and Qs stay home. It still provides the M experience without compromising quality and functionality.

[SrMi]

16 hours ago, pgh said:

Not the M11-D. That sensor is just too much resolution for no IBIS. (Best sensor for the use, as you say, is pertinent here). And I just don’t love the way it renders either. 

When the situation warrants, you can shoot M11s in 36 or 18MP modes. Fuji successfully launched a 100MP camera without IBIS.

[SrMi]

The only M11 feature I would suggest removing is the digital zoom.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Luke_Miller said:

No.  I would want one, but not at that price. I stopped buying Ms with my M240/M246. If I had to buy another it would be a used M10, but an M11 is too different from what I want in an M.  I have all the technology I want in my Q and SL bodies.  If I need more I have the Nikon Z8. 

In my opinion, and I believe others would disagree:

Q, SL, and Z8 cameras are more complex than an M11. Which features in the M11 bother you? The M240 is more "complicated" to me than the M11 because of the included video. Features added to M11 vs. M240 are non-intrusive and make my life easier when shooting with an M. I would like to have an even simpler M than M11, but I would not know what to cut.

Edited May 10 by SrMi

[MyLeicaWorld]

After all these firmware updates m11 is now working great .. a great companion to me on my travels.. wondering how better can m12 be? 

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[costa43]

I have given up hope on this dream of a simple classic digital M as I think Leica believe the D range is what we are asking for and it had a chance at the beginning. The MD-typ 262 is the closest we have had to perfection, it just needed to go on a bit of a diet and pinch the M10-D thumb rest, maybe the sensor too. Otherwise all the M models with a screen have been relatively similar in use from the m240 onwards imo. Even the M11. It’s the same experience in the end with me. Shutter/ISO/Aperture set, lift to eye, adjust rangefinder and shoot. The rest is peripheral and I’ve not touched anything since I set up my initial profile except for changing the lens profile when switching lenses. 

 

Edited May 10 by costa43

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I would like to have an even simpler M than M11, but I would not know what to cut.

What is the part in the front, oh yeah, the Lens, maybe we can cut that! Smaller and lighter.

 

Many talk about the D version, but then i saw so many M11-D users spending more time on the phone connecting the FOTOS app and flipping true images. LOL