Dr Cron Posted March 16 Share #1 Posted March 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) Now seriously pondering an M11 series camera – already have 2 film bodies (M3, MP, one of which I might trade) and 21SEM / 35Lux / 50DR inc. goggles / 75Lux. Question re. accessories in relation to possible use-case scenarios, bearing in mind that I already have a 21mm optical viewfinder – potentially in advance of checking out the options via in-store demo: Should I look to get EITHER: Visoflex (currently ±£715 inc. case: v expensive) OR: M11 Grip + x1.25 viewfinder mag (just under £600) - esp. for 75, but also for potential longer-exposure mini-tripod use? I currently do fine with 75lux without a mag on film but with 50DR too might find it a bit frustrating not to have it on a digital body? Given that the cost differential here isn't that huge, what do people reckon, esp. re. utility of Visoflex for the money esp. if I go for a standard M11 or M11P and thus have rear screen anyway? How good is the Visoflex experience? How good is the grip experience? How good is the viewfinder mag experience? Honest and informed opinions welcome! And please do *not* say get everything...! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 16 Posted March 16 Hi Dr Cron, Take a look here Accessories: options (visoflex or...). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted March 16 Share #2 Posted March 16 Depends on your issue or possible issue, if any. Focusing at full aperture? Camera shake? If focusing is the problem, a 75/1.4 lens is like a 90/2, more or less, at full aperture, both are close to the limits of the RF accuracy. An optical magnifier can help indeed but a good EVF is hard to beat. The Visoflex 2 is good enough for the M11 but i have no experience of it with the M10 sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 16 Share #3 Posted March 16 Only buy these accessories if you find that you need them, i.e. use the camera as it is for a few months and then decide. Otherwise they will just be a stack of money gathering dust in a drawer. The camera as-is is just perfect for many users. Personally I find magnifiers a total waste of money (but it will depend on your eyesight), especially if you end up using the Visoflex for 135 mm lenses. The EVF: I often wonder why some people buying an M use it as an EVF camera all the time - surely a full EVF camera with a better viewfinder and far more functionality than an auxiliary viewfinder would be a better choice. But it can be useful The grip depends on the anatomy of your hands 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted March 16 Share #4 Posted March 16 I had the original 1.25x magnifier in the past and the Leica M grip. I did not take to either. I felt like the magnifier made the framelines bigger, but the loss in acuity from the extra lens meant it wasn't really any more accurate to focus. Not for me at least. I had/have very good vision when corrected, so I don't think it was a matter of that. In terms of grip, I prefer a half case. The Arte di Mano fit really well for the digital M's, but are indeed rather pricey. As for the EVF, I only have the older one for my M (M10M), and I find it extremely useful. The bodies are so high resolution now that the EVF really helps get perfect focus when required. It is especially helpful for lenses that have focus shift or for your 75mm Summilux. It is not required, but is helpful, especially if you don't have the time or inclination to send every single lens and all your camera bodies back to Leica at once for them to match everything together perfectly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 16 Share #5 Posted March 16 (edited) As for the Summicron 50/2 DR, it is a lens you can use without goggles if you have an EVF. This way you can focus from 0.5m to infinity w/o accessory. But the lens cannot fit on all M bodies. Not on my M240 for instance but again i have no experience with the M10. Edited March 16 by lct Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted March 16 Share #6 Posted March 16 on M11 and M11-P comparison, there is not so much to gain from the 11-P, if you find a good deal on M11 I would suggest getting that. GRIP: I have a grip, half case, and thumb grip. I will switch around sometimes. I find the Leica Grip to be too bulky and big, there are other companies that have more interesting choices, I find the arca mount useful and the rubber with the hole to use USB-C at the same time. I would consider it at a later time if you feel you are missing it. Keep in mind that you can't mount lenses with goggles when the grip is installed. More useful is the Thumbie, it is taped on the camera and it is very affordable. I will help support larger lenses without compromising on the hotshoe/EVF Magnifiers: I have the 1.4x Light Lens Lab option, which I have used a few times on the Noctilux 0.95 and 135mm. It works, nothing special. it needs to be screwed on and that means for me removing the diopter every time which makes it challenging every time you change lenses. LLL version has a diopter incorporated, I had to put a bit of tape on the side for it not to spin. Diopter: you should check if you need this, I do need a bit and was happy to get it, I can focus the Noctilux wide open no problem with it. IMPORTANT EVF: The Visoflex is very useful, it helps with focus, visualizing with b&W preview, seeing focus falloff, and use of wide-angle lenses, and filters.I don't use the back of the screen much for focusing, I find I will miss what is going on in the image, and the little details that affect my composition. Plus I need readers for it to be close to my face. If you are getting only one accessory, this is it, even if you are only using it occasionally. Focusing on the 21SEM is still quicker true the rangefinder. the EVF can present you with a magnification assist to focus when turning the lens, I have this usually off and just turn it on with the little bottom on the top of the camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Cron Posted March 16 Author Share #7 Posted March 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK, all very helpful. On balance then I may well see what I can do with none of the above, and just use an arca-swiss QR plate for tripod use when I need it. I suppose I can demo an EVF to see whether it would really make any difference in my use-case, which is perhaps not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted March 16 Share #8 Posted March 16 9 minutes ago, Dr Cron said: OK, all very helpful. On balance then I may well see what I can do with none of the above, and just use an arca-swiss QR plate for tripod use when I need it. I suppose I can demo an EVF to see whether it would really make any difference in my use-case, which is perhaps not. You really don't need any of that stuff, esp if coming from a film M. The grip can be nice for a long day of 'pro' shooting... as far as Visoflex goes, remember that if you get into a tricky situation for that odd shot you can always use Live View on the rear screen, you don't need the extra bulk and $$$ EVF, the rangefinder and an OVF for your 21 can do 95% of the heavy lifting. Magnifiers are like lens caps, most likely getting lost. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted March 16 Share #9 Posted March 16 I used a 1.25 magnifier on my M 262 when mounting a 75mm lens. It helped. I found I no longer needed the magnifier for that same lens on the M11. Good thing as I'd have to buy an adapter to use it. The magnifier sits in its box on the shelf with other no-longer-used camera gear. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted March 16 Share #10 Posted March 16 7 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said: You really don't need any of that stuff, esp if coming from a film M. The grip can be nice for a long day of 'pro' shooting... as far as Visoflex goes, remember that if you get into a tricky situation for that odd shot you can always use Live View on the rear screen, you don't need the extra bulk and $$$ EVF, the rangefinder and an OVF for your 21 can do 95% of the heavy lifting. Magnifiers are like lens caps, most likely getting lost. I suppose not everyone is so adventurous to try low shots, but the Visoflex has a tilt option useful sometimes when you need a shoot low to the ground. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted March 17 Share #11 Posted March 17 Personally I own the new Visoflex2 on my M11 but I use it on and off. There are periods that I use it all the time then I leave it at home for no obvious reason. But I do not miss it when its at home in the drawer. But when I use it I like it as I can go down to the ground with the M11 and take "makros" that way. Or I can just try a lower perspective as you can tilt the Visoflex. This is a very nice function. An other use case is that you can see areas in your picture (through the Visoflex) that will be blown out (note that the image shown is jpg whereas a raw has reserves of at least one LV). This gives you additional control when you want to make sure that the sky is not blown out. On the other hand you could use the backscreen as well for this. I would summarise as follows (only valid for me): Whenever I want to do more than just taking pictures and when I want to document something very consciouly then I will say to myself: Take along 3 lenses plus the tripod and the Visoflex2. A downside of the Visoflex is that it uses more battery. In case of @Dr Cron I think as follows: Evidently you are not the person to just buys everthing. You want to know what makes sense. For this reason and if it was me, I would start without Visoflex (as I did). Find out first how it feels. Try to use the backscreen if needed. You will see that in most cases you will do without. If at a later time you need a nice present for you birthday or Christmas then its time to wish that Visoflex. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted March 17 Share #12 Posted March 17 14 minutes ago, M11 for me said: I own the new Visoflex2 on my M11 Off on a slight tangent, but do you find yours very tight to fit? Also the 'pips' on the bottom are very tight to the top plate and I fuss about marks as the M3 lightmeters made back in the day. Also have to say the rubber protector for the Viso when not on the camera is useless as it doesn't stay in place, so I was daft enough to spend another £110 on the leather case! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 17 Share #13 Posted March 17 Same tightness as the Leicameter here, so no significant wobbles but same marks or lack thereof are to be expected on the top plate in a couple decades depending on the way of using both accessories. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted March 17 Share #14 Posted March 17 I cannot say anything negative about how the Visoflex sits on the camera. I am sorry if you have a different experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted March 17 Share #15 Posted March 17 23 hours ago, Photoworks said: I suppose not everyone is so adventurous to try low shots, but the Visoflex has a tilt option useful sometimes when you need a shoot low to the ground. My wrists also have a tilt function, and they've come free with every camera I've owned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 18 Share #16 Posted March 18 I would have had to lie on the ground to take this snap w/o EVF. My arthritic knees did hurt though 😅 M11, Visoflex 2, CV 21/4, f/4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419858-accessories-options-visoflex-or/?do=findComment&comment=5773260'>More sharing options...
jakontil Posted March 18 Share #17 Posted March 18 Buy the visoflex and be done with it, covering every range the lenses u throw in but i sold mine and bought OVF for my 21 mm and mag 1.25x for my 50 and a grip i thought if i need one i can use the lcd Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted March 18 Share #18 Posted March 18 I think the Visoflex is something worth having in a draw. You may not use it very often on an M but when you need it, you will be grateful for it. I have an SL2-S in my draw instead but the use case for me is the same. Nailing focus at f1.4 on my vintage glass is much more reliable with an EVF. It also allows you to adapt non rangefinder coupled lenses if that is your bag.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris7273 Posted March 18 Share #19 Posted March 18 I like my visoflex even if I don't use it often. - it offers different point of views : chest level and other atypical positions 🙂 - only one finder for all the possible lenses, even for the odd things (other brands, extension tubes, adapters...). The build quality is though questionable : the front panel fell of, it's only assembled with a tiny piece of double sided adhesive. I used gafer tape all around the visoflex case. It looks ugly but it's well protected now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted March 18 Share #20 Posted March 18 17 hours ago, lct said: I would have had to lie on the ground to take this snap w/o EVF. My arthritic knees did hurt though 😅 M11, Visoflex 2, CV 21/4, f/4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Yeah, that is what Mr Peterson seems to like with his comment about getting one with the ground and the bugs. nothing wrong with that, to each their own! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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