EVF M rumoured

[Dazzajl]

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42 minutes ago, T25UFO said:

How would knowledge of EFCS helped me to obtain a sharper photo?

In short, it wouldn’t.  That particular shot is perfectly sharp and nothing to be gained there. 
 

For what it’s worth, I’ve been shooting commercially since the dinosaurs and until this morning I had no idea that EFCS was a thing. All I know is how much a camera ‘jumps’ when you fire it. Some are great, some are far more noticeable than you’d expect. Enter M8 and 246 for sure. 

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, evikne said:

Chat GPT is our friend:

In photography, EFCS stands for Electronic First Curtain Shutter. It is a feature found in many modern digital cameras that helps reduce shutter shock and improve image sharpness, especially at slower shutter speeds.

How EFCS Works:

• Traditional mechanical shutters have two curtains: the first one opens to expose the sensor, and the second one closes to end the exposure.

• With EFCS, instead of using a physical first curtain, the camera starts the exposure electronically by activating the sensor. The mechanical second curtain still closes to end the exposure.

Advantages of EFCS:

✅ Reduces vibration – Since there is no physical first curtain moving, it eliminates shutter shock that can cause motion blur, especially at slower shutter speeds.
✅ Improves sharpness – Beneficial for high-resolution sensors and telephoto lenses where even small vibrations can affect detail.
✅ Quieter operation – The first curtain does not move, making the shutter sound softer.
✅ Faster response – Reduces shutter lag compared to a fully mechanical shutter.

Limitations of EFCS:

⚠️ Can cause bokeh distortion – At very high shutter speeds (1/2000s or faster), EFCS can cause uneven exposure or distortion in out-of-focus highlights (bokeh).
⚠️ Not ideal for flash photography – Some cameras disable EFCS when using flash to prevent sync issues.

Some cameras allow you to choose between EFCS, mechanical shutter, or full electronic shutter, depending on the shooting situation.

I would not trust Chat GPT for anything relating to photography, though some of it is correct. I will post a brief overview later.

[M11 for me]

I just wonder: Is this thing with the 4 letters not exactly what the M11 has when in hybrid shutter mode?

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb T25UFO:

How would knowledge of EFCS helped me to obtain a sharper photo?

Unfortunately, neither your description nor the EXIF data for that photo tell us the shutter time or the type of shutter used (mechanical vs. electronic). So we cannot tell, if EFCS could have helped (obviously, it was'nt required in that shot).

The M240 suffered quite obviously from shutter shock, when used between 1/8 and 1/125 shutter time, see e.g.: https://diglloyd.com/blog-2013-10.html#20131025_1-LeicaM240-shutter-vibration (with examples), same for Sony A7R at that time.

So, showing a sample photo without issues does'nt prove, that EFCS makes no sense (same for IBIS, EVF, AF etc.). We also have lucky shots of sports taken with an M - which also do not prove, that M is a camera that you should choose for sports today. Only statistical evaluations with sufficiently large samples could provide reasonably meaningful evidence here.

 

Edited March 30 by 3D-Kraft.com

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb M11 for me:

I just wonder: Is this thing with the 4 letters not exactly what the M11 has when in hybrid shutter mode?

No, this only switches automatically from mechanical to electronic shutter, when shutter times faster 1/4000 are required.

[SrMi]

Some comments on EFCS and shutter shock.,

Shutter shock is a camera vibration caused by the movement of the mechanical shutter. It differs from mirror slap, which causes unwanted camera vibration with DSLRs. Camera vibration can lead to blurred images. The amount of vibration depends on how well the shutter is dampened. My Olympus OM-1 has a well-dampened shutter and no visible shutter shock.

Shutter shock is mainly visible at longer focal lengths and slower shutter speeds.

Shutter shock is typically not an issue with M cameras. I have observed only a slight blur with M cameras when shooting above 90mm. On the other hand, SL owners often have to use an electronic shutter with a long focal lens to avoid shutter shock blur.

As @evikne has shared in his post, EFCS replaces the first curtain with an electronic "shutter," which resets the sensor electronically instead of exposing it with the first curtain. That reduces the shutter-induced vibration enough to eliminate most of the shutter shock blur. 

The shutter operation with M11 is more complex than with M10, as the shutter is initially open and the sensor is exposed. EFCS would silence the shutter and decrease the shutter lag.

EFCS can be beneficial with any resolution and is/should be the default mode for cameras that offer it. However, there can be some bokeh issues when shooting wide open and at high shutter speeds. Many cameras provide automatic switch to mechanical shutter at higher shutter speeds.

An electronic shutter is the only way to completely eliminate shutter shock, but EFCS reduces it enough for it to become a non-issue. Some cameras have really blurred images when shooting with a mechanical shutter alone. Here is an example with Nikon Z 7:

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/shutter-shock-and-the-nikon-z7/

 

[3D-Kraft.com]

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vor 34 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

An electronic shutter is the only way to completely eliminate shutter shock, but EFCS reduces it enough for it to become a non-issue.

The "shock" of the EFCS shutter happens after the shot is taken, so it also should eliminate vibration-caused blur already ompletely.

Edited March 30 by 3D-Kraft.com

[SrMi]

30 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

The "shock" of the EFCS shutter happens after the shot is taken, so it also should eliminate vibration-caused blur already ompletely.

Measurements show still some unsharpness with EFCS when compared to the electronic shutter. I assume the vibration is caused by starting the second shutter. While it can be measured, I do not know whether it is observable in normal shooting.

[T25UFO]

4 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Unfortunately, neither your description nor the EXIF data for that photo tell us the shutter time or the type of shutter used (mechanical vs. electronic). So we cannot tell, if EFCS could have helped (obviously, it was'nt required in that shot).

The M240 suffered quite obviously from shutter shock, when used between 1/8 and 1/125 shutter time, see e.g.: https://diglloyd.com/blog-2013-10.html#20131025_1-LeicaM240-shutter-vibration (with examples), same for Sony A7R at that time.

So, showing a sample photo without issues does'nt prove, that EFCS makes no sense (same for IBIS, EVF, AF etc.). We also have lucky shots of sports taken with an M - which also do not prove, that M is a camera that you should choose for sports today. Only statistical evaluations with sufficiently large samples could provide reasonably meaningful evidence here.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply, although I'm probably none the wiser, but that's OK.

My point was that until yesterday EFCS were just four random letters that had no meaning for me.  I was just interested to know what have I been missing all these years and would prior knowledge have made me a better photographer?  I think I've now answered my own question 🙂 and will leave this discussion to those who enjoy these technically minded discussions.  Me?  I'll just carry on taking photos!

For what it's worth, here is the EXIF data for that photo: shutter speed 1/200th, aperture f2.8, ISO 500, camera M11 Monochrom, lens M 50mm f1.2 Noctilux (reissue), original image size 9528 x 6328 cropped to 2467 x 1638.  Other processing in Lightroom Classic:

Exposure + 0.51, contrast + 7, highlights - 61, shadows + 65, whites + 25, blacks - 60.

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb T25UFO:

I was just interested to know what have I been missing all these years and would prior knowledge have made me a better photographer?

I don't know the history of your previous cameras but the examples in the diglloyd-article clearly showed the problems in which you could have run, when using a M240. This wasn't a problem for nerds only. I also saw this vibration caused blur on my A7R at that time and the only way to avoid it was avoiding the "danger zone" of affected shutter times.

Leica may have learned from that and at least implemented a better damping. EFCS would have been the easier and more reliable path.

vor 24 Minuten schrieb T25UFO:

For what it's worth, here is the EXIF data for that photo: shutter speed 1/200th, ...

Thanks. With this shutter speed you are outside the "danger zone" (but it seems like, it isn't a problem anymore on M11). Still doesn't mean that EFCS is useless.

[Cronilux]

This thread is pure off topic. Can anybody maybe change the title? 

[Stephencdean]

I agree, where are the ‘thread police’ when you need them! 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, T25UFO said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply, although I'm probably none the wiser, but that's OK.

My point was that until yesterday EFCS were just four random letters that had no meaning for me.  I was just interested to know what have I been missing all these years and would prior knowledge have made me a better photographer?  I think I've now answered my own question 🙂 and will leave this discussion to those who enjoy these technically minded discussions.  Me?  I'll just carry on taking photos!

For what it's worth, here is the EXIF data for that photo: shutter speed 1/200th, aperture f2.8, ISO 500, camera M11 Monochrom, lens M 50mm f1.2 Noctilux (reissue), original image size 9528 x 6328 cropped to 2467 x 1638.  Other processing in Lightroom Classic:

Exposure + 0.51, contrast + 7, highlights - 61, shadows + 65, whites + 25, blacks - 60.

As I wrote, as an M photographer, you do not need to worry/know about EFCS and shutter shock (assuming you are not shooting with 200mm focal lengths). 

[LocalHero1953]

27 minutes ago, Cronilux said:

This thread is pure off topic. Can anybody maybe change the title? 

 

24 minutes ago, Stephencdean said:

I agree, where are the ‘thread police’ when you need them! 

The solution is in your hands: please post new leaks about the EVF M.😉

[3D-Kraft.com]

Did you notice, that Thorsten Overgaard was talking about the M11-V prototype with integrated EVF already 2 years ago?

Not much information given, so you can save half an hour of your life time by skipping it...

 

[rxj]

11 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Did you notice, that Thorsten Overgaard was talking about the M11-V prototype with integrated EVF already 2 years ago?

Not much information given, so you can save half an hour of your life time by skipping it...

Leica have been reported to have been working on it a long time and testing it.

I guess May can't come soon enough but I'm sure we'll see leaks before then.

[algrove]

Will it come soon, then? Anyone know for sure?

[dimpfelmoser]

I was told it will already be announced in May.

[lct]

Pretty sure it won't be announced tomorrow. April fool

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[IkarusJohn]

22 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

… the diglloyd-article clearly showed the problems …

Ah, that puts the problem into clear perspective, thank you!