EVF M rumoured

[costa43]

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1 hour ago, pgk said:

An 'independent of aperture' rangefinder (which is how the M focuses) is the best method for quickly and accurately focusing a wide-angle lens. It is one of the key strengths of the rf-M. But the rf-M is not so good with longer lenses as it quickly loses its precision because of the short rangefinder base length. Having used EVF and SLR cameras as well as Ms I can say that the M offers excellent wide-angle focus using the rangefinder and unlike EVF cameras can do so independent of the set aperture. Of course this does require good lenses with no aperture dependant focus shift ..... 

Whilst I can understand the desire by some for a well thought out EVF-M, there are actually some aspects of the ef-M which are functionally better and the OVF too has its advantages within its operational envelope.

There is of course no perfect camera which is fit for all purposes.

Yep, the rangefinder is the way. Love it and will always own one and use it as my main daily camera. 

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[spersky]

There has been a very interesting discussion on this thread.  I took out my Leica MP film camera the other day and realized that the current rangefinder system really is useful for focusing on the art of photography, of being in the moment.  I do fear that I will go down a rabbit hole of obsessing over focus peaking and zooming in with an EVF Leica.  Right now,  I can lock focus extremely fast with the current rangefinder system.  I do miss focus in the eyes though with my 50mm 1.4 sometimes at close up portraits or using my 75mm at F2.  I wear glasses and such.

In addition,  I shoot film on the Leica MP and digital on the Leica M11-p which is the same muscle memory for focus and obtaining focus,  I think the EVF will mess up my workflow. 

Eventually,  I suspect I might buy the M11-EVF,  but maybe I do not need it,  Just some thoughts. For the occasions, like child graduation etc,  maybe a visolfex is in my future.

Edited August 28 by spersky

[charlesphoto99]

5 minutes ago, JNK100 said:

No I haven't but you made a statement and I didn't.

A 'statement....' Sorry bud, this isn't a court of law. You can agree or disagree with what I said, but nobody's getting hurt or locked up wrongly if I'm wrong or not entirely correct in what I stated. I think most people on here are able to parse opinion even when it's presented as a statement, without always having to use qualifiers (though I try and do as much as possible to avoid this type of situation, but sometimes forget). I'll start again: 

So, in my opinion.....

[brickftl]

4 hours ago, costa43 said:

I feel the same way. If I want an EVF I pick up the SL2-S, I can also use my Visoflex 2. My curiousity will only be peaked if it brings something new to the table. A hybrid viewfinder or a type of focus confirmation we have not seen before that really improves the shooting experience. To go and drop 7k or whatever it comes out at just because of the design does not make much sense to me. Granted it is a native M mount but that is not enough on it's own to warrant it, for me. 

there's actually an advantage using the visoflex 2 versus a new EVF on the M11V, namely, the ability to look down into the visoflex which is an advantage to stealth street shooting.

[brickftl]

11 minutes ago, costa43 said:

Yep, the rangefinder is the way. Love it and will always own one and use it as my main daily camera. 

agreed, especially now that I have eyes capable of seeing through the rangefinder

[JNK100]

6 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

A 'statement....' Sorry bud, this isn't a court of law. You can agree or disagree with what I said, but nobody's getting hurt or locked up wrongly if I'm wrong or not entirely correct in what I stated. I think most people on here are able to parse opinion even when it's presented as a statement, without always having to use qualifiers (though I try and do as much as possible to avoid this type of situation, but sometimes forget). I'll start again: 

So, in my opinion.....

Apologies - I didn't mean to sound difficult.

Over here I see more younger people in the Leicastore than ever before which is a good thing.

 

 

[charlesphoto99]

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1 minute ago, JNK100 said:

Apologies - I didn't mean to sound difficult.

Over here I see more younger people in the Leicastore than ever before which is a good thing.

 

 

That's a good thing. Question is, how much are they actually buying and how much is just looking (and then going and buying a Sony, Nikon or Fuji)? 

I remember back in the mid-nineties I was in our local camera store, as a young pro slobbering over the Leica case for things I could never afford. In walked my friend Krist Novoselic, bass guitar player for what was arguably the biggest band in the world at that moment, Nirvana. I asked him if he was buying a new camera, and he said, oh no, just getting a battery for my K1000. But, I said, as I swept my hand over the case, you could get any of these - all of these! Krist said he liked his K1000 and that was good enough for him. That humbleness has stuck with me ever since. 

 

[JNK100]

10 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

That's a good thing. Question is, how much are they actually buying and how much is just looking (and then going and buying a Sony, Nikon or Fuji)? 

I remember back in the mid-nineties I was in our local camera store, as a young pro slobbering over the Leica case for things I could never afford. In walked my friend Krist Novoselic, bass guitar player for what was arguably the biggest band in the world at that moment, Nirvana. I asked him if he was buying a new camera, and he said, oh no, just getting a battery for my K1000. But, I said, as I swept my hand over the case, you could get any of these - all of these! Krist said he liked his K1000 and that was good enough for him. That humbleness has stuck with me ever since. 

 

Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, but I hope not. Some of the younger ones I have noticed recently had Leicas with them but of course, I don't know if they were looking to buy.

That's a good and interesting story about your friend. I wonder what camera he has now!

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb lct:

No adapter car communicate with the focus cams of an M (or LTM) lens.

...and no Leica M or SL body is (and probably will be) able to use M-mount (or LTM) lenses with autofocus, like you can do it on Nikon and Sony bodies, where I can easily get over the missing lever.

[lct]

2 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

...and no Leica M or SL body is (and probably will be) able to use M-mount (or LTM) lenses with autofocus, like you can do it on Nikon and Sony bodies, where I can easily get over the missing lever.

Did that been there but my Techart adapter tends to become as dusty as my Sony since i have the M11. Matter of taste i guess 😎

[Jon Warwick]

9 hours ago, lct said:

Hopefully not. What is the point of using an M mount otherwise? AFAIC it would be a no no.

Same preference on my side. I’d want the option of automatically zooming into the image when turning the focus ring. I find it more seamless to not have to push a button first.

The main questions I still have re this hypothetical camera are

1) whether the body shape will be the same as an M (or more Q in size and style), and

2) what method the EVF will allow one to gauge sharp focus (ie, simply eye balling when it looks sharp in the EVF, or if there is an electronic version of a rangefinder? …the GFX has options in manual focus for a digital split image or a digital microprism, for example). 

[lct]

31 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

[...] The main questions I still have re this hypothetical camera are
1) whether the body shape will be the same as an M (or more Q in size and style), and
2) what method the EVF will allow one to gauge sharp focus (ie, simply eye balling when it looks sharp in the EVF, or if there is an electronic version of a rangefinder? [...]

If i knew i would not be allowed to tell but rumors say it would have a similar shape as other Ms and a built-in EVF with more resolution than the Visoflex2 with focus aids the detail of which remains unknown. See:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Leak-reveals-details-of-Leica-M11-V-with-full-frame-sensor-and-EVF-in-a-compact-body-hints-at-a-lower-price.1096170.0.html

[jaapv]

Rumours don’t take photos nor do speculations. 

[DadDadDaddyo]

Hmm. Sounds as if prospects could be bright for a Visoflex 3.

I'd get one, for sure...

[hexx]

I’ve been thinking about this a bit and if they’re removing RF patch and keeping OVF - why would one need frameline selection otherwise - I think it could be possible to have hybrid VF in this camera that could work like this:

- full EVF

- hybrid mode where OVF is used for framing and EVF would be triggered when focus ring is rotated with 2 modes: full screen EVF or just a “patch” within OVF. 

Considering this is the same sensor as in other contemporary Leica cameras, it does have PD pixels on the sensor. One should be able to move “patch” across the sensor and also choose how large it is and then use that for focusing aid either as a full screen EVF or a floating patch within OVF or just like Nikon ZF’s focus confirmation. 
 

The technology exists, it just depends on how Leica decides to implement it but I believe it’s all doable. 
 

If they come up with great solution, I might come back to M from Q3. Although I used AF for holiday snaps, for my more considerate approach to photography, I use Q3 in manual mode as I like the experience of manual focus - I’m the only one to blame for out of focus photos. 
 

(I knew I should’ve kept the 28 summicron - sigh, would have to get it again)

Edited August 29 by hexx

[hexx]

Also, I’m very curious to see the pricing of this camera. In theory - and I know Leica doesn’t follow this - it should be cheaper than Q3. There’s no lens, there’s no flip out screen, there’s no AF, there’s no weather sealing. 

[LocalHero1953]

Leica has not been averse to compromised viewfinders before. The Leica ii and iii had separate finders for composition/framing and focussing. 

[dsalamena]

2 hours ago, hexx said:

Also, I’m very curious to see the pricing of this camera. In theory - and I know Leica doesn’t follow this - it should be cheaper than Q3. There’s no lens, there’s no flip out screen, there’s no AF, there’s no weather sealing. 

Pricing of the M11-V will be interesting also in the light of the new Hasselblad X2D II medium format camera which is USD 1.500 cheaper than the M11. Without the rangefinder it will be difficult to justify any premium price tag, specially compared to a luxury medium format camera.

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[jaapv]

I don’t see any M camera as being in competition with any medium format camera. Completely different use cases. 

[lct]

Re pricing, does anybody recalls how much cheaper the M1 was compared to the M2? According to the source below, the MDa was 36% less expensive than the M4 in 1969. But it had neither RF nor VF.
(Source)

Edited August 29 by lct