Smogg Posted February 13 Share #421 Posted February 13 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 minutes ago, Chris W said: This is where internet lore has taken over the debate. I imagine hardly any working professional shoots wide open at F1.0 or F1.2. They are niche lenses and were originally developed to help low light photography when most film speeds topped out at ISO800. I think the 1.4 lenses are very popular with professional Leica users, whether the lens is glued to f1.4 I don't know. Usually you want some context in your image, a subject, a middle distance and a far away plane. The M system doesn't have to compete with Sony A7 or Fuji (various). It is unique and the people who use it appreciate it's unique features. Well-known professionals do not use them, but photos taken at f1.0 look professional in the eyes of an inexperienced viewer. That's why they are popular. I bought such a lens, blurred the background into dust and showed my friends how cool I am😂 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Hi Smogg, Take a look here EVF M rumoured. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted February 13 Share #422 Posted February 13 vor 14 Minuten schrieb Crem: If I understand you correctly... I fear you misunderstood that I was just mocking the tendency in this thread to re-invent so many features which long exist elsewhere and do not need any rumored "EVF-M" if one wants to have these features. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 13 Share #423 Posted February 13 If the EVF M is a separate product, fine. It makes me laugh that on a Leica forum so many people post negative comments at people who like to use a rangefinder and appreciate a simpler, mostly manual workflow. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Robinson Posted February 13 Share #424 Posted February 13 (edited) A Leica SL with the Leica M-Adapter L does everything one could wish for with M-series lenses and adds the opportunity to use AF or MF lenses from Leica and other manufacturers. Why would anyone want the reduced functionality of a so-called 'EVF-M'? In good light, M rangefinder focusing is at least as fast as focus peaking on the SL, sometimes faster. Edited February 13 by John Robinson 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted February 13 Share #425 Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Smogg said: You forgot another group, which includes those for whom the distortion caused by the narrow dynamic range of the EVF is unacceptable. The EVF does not show shadow detail, colors are distorted, there is no useful frame to predict changes in the scene and the appearance of new participants, and so on. Seeing a live image is critical to me, so I almost never use the EVF if possible. On cameras with an EVF(Q43, X2D, A7RV), I use only an external screen to stay in touch with the live scene. Interesting. Shadow detail, colours and dynamic range are low down my priority list for an EVF. That’s what my eyes are for, looking at the scene outside the VF (optical or electronic). Top of my priority list is response speed, especially in lower light (where the response of EVFs slows down). When I press the shutter for that decisive moment, I don’t want to find I have taken a shot a microsecond too late because the EVF is running behind reality. I would happily have a monochrome EVF as long as it was as close to real world time as made no difference. I would even sacrifice resolution for speed. The add-on EVFs for the digital Ms have always had a slow response compared to built-in EVFs. Perhaps that’s where an EVF M can do better. Of course response speed is where an OVF excels! Edited February 13 by LocalHero1953 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C.T. Posted February 13 Share #426 Posted February 13 1 hour ago, charlesphoto99 said: "I'm just not sure focusing will be that much easier than with the traditional rangefinder patch in the latter view (well either, actually, but that's me)." The key issue; the rest is noise. Well said. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phojomatic Posted February 13 Share #427 Posted February 13 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 minutes ago, Al Brown said: I wonder if this thread will reach the milestone number of posts like the M11 one did. Running neck and neck with the M12 rumors thread. I suspect the EVF-m will be realized early May, but which time we should be well past 100 pages!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phojomatic Posted February 13 Share #428 Posted February 13 37 minutes ago, John Robinson said: A Leica SL with the Leica M-Adapter L does everything one could wish for with M-series lenses and adds the opportunity to use AF or MF lenses from Leica and other manufacturers. Why would anyone want the reduced functionality of a so-called 'EVF-M'? In good light, M rangefinder focusing is at least as fast as focus peaking on the SL, sometimes faster. I think people (myself included) want exactly this…an SL in an M body with M mount. We don’t want an SL to use with our M, we want a similar, familiar, complimentary camera that can use the same darn batteries. I love a rangefinder most times, but inside a jazz club for example, an EVF with 90 or 135 in a native M would be nice i thins this will be ok in the end, its an addition, not a subtraction to the line. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtong Posted February 13 Share #429 Posted February 13 Leica likely will do a APSC size rather then full frame for EVF M. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffBrown Posted February 13 Share #430 Posted February 13 5 minutes ago, jimtong said: Leica likely will do a APSC size rather then full frame for EVF M. They did that with the digital CL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crem Posted February 13 Share #431 Posted February 13 43 minutes ago, Al Brown said: I wonder if this thread will reach the milestone number of posts like the M11 one did. Let’s make it happen. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 13 Share #432 Posted February 13 1 hour ago, John Robinson said: A Leica SL with the Leica M-Adapter L does everything one could wish for with M-series lenses [...] Too big for M lenses, adapter not wanted for them, sensor not optimized to work best with them, lack of mechanical link with them, no auto zoom capabilities... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted February 13 Share #433 Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Al Brown said: I wonder if this thread will reach the milestone number of posts like the M11 one did. If you 'wonder' enough times it will😉 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted February 13 Share #434 Posted February 13 Reading the 'non-dismissive' posts from one who is close to the factory, it is going to happen and I am sure the design is already fixed. So only thing to discuss is when. Is betting allowed here? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 13 Share #435 Posted February 13 13 minutes ago, pedaes said: Reading the 'non-dismissive' posts from one who is close to the factory, it is going to happen and I am sure the design is already fixed. So only thing to discuss is when. Is betting allowed here? Before or after the M12? I bet before to reassure M12 users that they will remain the best 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudgerer Posted February 13 Share #436 Posted February 13 If electric kettles now can have IBIS I don't know why Leica cannot squeeze it into the M yet........ Bouilloire électrique Ibis - 0.5 L - Inox mat - BODUM (2) Bouilloire électrique Arrêt automatique Capacité : 0,5 L Coloris : Chrome Matériaux : Acier inoxydable et ABS 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 13 Share #437 Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Chris W said: If the EVF M is a separate product, fine. It makes me laugh that on a Leica forum so many people post negative comments at people who like to use a rangefinder and appreciate a simpler, mostly manual workflow. In large part, it's because they don't know what they want. After going through a spreadsheets worth of Sony's and Fuji's, they pony up to get an M for a more 'pure' photographic experience, but then discover that actually means work (which includes the digital darkroom), and embracing a sort of imperfectionist mindset - having to 'let go' to a large degree, get loose, and that can be really difficult. One can't have the camera do everything for you, and also have it be a return to the basics. I see a lot of "the M isn't capable of doing this or that" versus "the photographer isn't capable..." which puts too much reliance on the gear versus the ability to see and create with what one has. Sometimes limitations are liberating. (I'm generalizing, of course - others come at the M from many different angles and for different reasons). That said, I think it's great if Leica release this camera. Will it make some people happy? Sure. Will it make their photography better? Some, possibly. Worse? Possibly some too. I know for me it would make mine worse. I would get to hung up on the little screen in front of me, making sure the focus is always 'perfect' versus reacting to the scene outside the camera like I do with the traditional optical viewfinder, and just taking the shot. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 13 Share #438 Posted February 13 32 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said: In large part, it's because they don't know what they want. After going through a spreadsheets worth of Sony's and Fuji's, they pony up to get an M for a more 'pure' photographic experience, but then discover that actually means work (which includes the digital darkroom), and embracing a sort of imperfectionist mindset - having to 'let go' to a large degree, get loose, and that can be really difficult. One can't have the camera do everything for you, and also have it be a return to the basics. I see a lot of "the M isn't capable of doing this or that" versus "the photographer isn't capable..." which puts too much reliance on the gear versus the ability to see and create with what one has. Sometimes limitations are liberating. (I'm generalizing, of course - others come at the M from many different angles and for different reasons) [...] Indeed it is generalizing since many (most?) colleagues here are not new comers to photography. Now i quite agree that "one can't have the camera do everything for you" and the so-called magenta cast issue is a good example, but i don't understand what all this has to do with the topic. One can have experience with either RF or reflex cameras or both. The rumoured EVF-M is nothing but an M-mount camera with a built-in EVF in lieu of the RF. It will require skills that are similar if not identical as those involved in using an M11 with the Visoflex 2. Different skills as those involved when using the same camera in RF mode perhaps but i fail to see in what this has the least link with asking a camera to do everything for you. The M11 can be easier to use in LV mode than RF mode for some people and the opposite for others. I may be missing something though... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 13 Share #439 Posted February 13 35 minutes ago, lct said: Indeed it is generalizing since many (most?) colleagues here are not new comers to photography. Now i quite agree that "one can't have the camera do everything for you" and the so-called magenta cast issue is a good example, but i don't understand what all this has to do with the topic. One can have experience with either RF or reflex cameras or both. The rumoured EVF-M is nothing but an M-mount camera with a built-in EVF in lieu of the RF. It will require skills that are similar if not identical as those involved in using an M11 with the Visoflex 2. Different skills as those involved when using the same camera in RF mode perhaps but i fail to see in what this has the least link with asking a camera to do everything for you. The M11 can be easier to use in LV mode than RF mode for some people and the opposite for others. I may be missing something though... If you don't get what I'm on about, you don't get it. That's fine. I'm not asking you to. And your second to last line is exactly what I said. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 13 Share #440 Posted February 13 After over twenty years of AF and other automatic functions (IBIS to replace steady hands and shooting technique to name but one), many will be newcomers to manual photography and won't appreciate relinquishing their dependence on automation and the learning curve that comes with it. We see too many posts in the vein of "i cannot do it, so it is impossible" in the M forums. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now