Lee S Posted March 10 Share #381 Posted March 10 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 3/4/2025 at 5:49 PM, jonoslack said: Well I'm not going to go back and check - but there is between 1.1/2 and 2 stops between the M10-R and the M11, and certainly more than a stop between the M240 and the M10 . . . . but LCT was implying that the M11 was actually worse than the M240! Incidentally I have lots of good shots taken at 25,000 ISO with the M11, and personally I don't use any denoise AI software - but then I'm not really objecting to noise!. . . . . .I do, however, shoot a great deal in low light, and I simply don't have an issue, so I find it hard to see why others do! On the other hand I don't have any objection to Leica bringing out a fat M12 with IBIS and a flippy LCD - it's fine - even a hybrid viewfinder if you like, video if you want and a special AF adapted lens mount, just as long as they also bring out a thin one with just a rangefinder and without IBIS (I explained the reasons above). This right here. I’ve changed my mind on this subject (used to think IBIS was needed). M’s especially with the modern sensors do not need IBIS for low light. The 1/2 stops with the latest sensors makes a massive difference especially when viewing at print size. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 10 Posted March 10 Hi Lee S, Take a look here Why the M needs IBIS. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
setuporg Posted March 10 Share #382 Posted March 10 16 hours ago, hillavoider said: What's your technique for low light then? i really want to use this camera more Noctilux! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted March 10 Share #383 Posted March 10 47 minutes ago, setuporg said: Noctilux! yeah nah tried that Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted March 11 Share #384 Posted March 11 2 hours ago, hillavoider said: yeah nah tried that So how dark do you want to shoot at? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuseby Posted March 11 Share #385 Posted March 11 And what exact is “IBIS” (for us unwashed). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted March 11 Share #386 Posted March 11 30 minutes ago, smuseby said: And what exact is “IBIS” (for us unwashed). In-body image stabilization. The sensor is moved to counteract camera movement, thus stabilizing the image and compensating for handheld camera shake. Welcome to the forum! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted March 11 Share #387 Posted March 11 Advertisement (gone after registration) 7 hours ago, setuporg said: So how dark do you want to shoot at? Low light not nighttime Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted March 11 Share #388 Posted March 11 6 hours ago, smuseby said: And what exact is “IBIS” (for us unwashed). Seriously 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee S Posted March 11 Share #389 Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, hillavoider said: Low light not nighttime Do you have any sample photos and shot settings you would like to share where you are not happy with noise/sharpness? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveclem Posted March 11 Share #390 Posted March 11 On 2/5/2025 at 9:57 AM, Al Brown said: "American white ibis" is so racist Would that make the Scarlet Ibis a Native American ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_ibis Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted March 11 Share #391 Posted March 11 12 hours ago, smuseby said: And what exact is “IBIS” (for us unwashed). Everybody knows that Ibis is a budget hotel, used by American and Aussie students in their gap year to get to know Europe. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted March 12 Share #392 Posted March 12 ...back to the topic of IBIS relating to camera technology: I think the eventual evolution of camera gear will arrive at global shutters and digital stabilization. No sensor on wobbly longlegs, needing extra space to freely dance. This will allow stabilization without increasing the body thickness, which I prefer; nay, DEMAND. I still have an M240, and it still works as it was designed, but it is just too thick. Yet even at that thickness, present mechanical IBIS mechanisms don't fit. If in future times processing power increases (what a concept) and sensor quality and speed increase (ditto) proper digital stabilizations should not be a problem. Whether it is an M16 or an M16-EF, or even an M20-EF-AF-IR-UV-NASCAR-F1 is then irrelevant. Until that sort of technology arrives and is found acceptable, I'll manage to do without IBIS and with a slim and relatively traditional camera body. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted March 12 Share #393 Posted March 12 The slimness of the M10 is the biggest heist in digital camera history. The thicker M240 is much better to hold. It has a movie mode. There was absolutely no reason to slim it down. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted March 12 Share #394 Posted March 12 (edited) 57 minutes ago, henning said: I think the eventual evolution of camera gear will arrive at global shutters and digital stabilization. Digital Stabilization only works for video. 57 minutes ago, henning said: This will allow stabilization without increasing the body thickness, which I prefer The mechanical shutter can be removed with a global shutter or stacked sensor. That makes enough space for IBIS without increasing thickness. P.S.: M11 applies digital stabilization to the live view. It helps with focusing when using a magnified view. Edited March 12 by SrMi Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 12 Share #395 Posted March 12 6 hours ago, SrMi said: Digital Stabilization only works for video. The mechanical shutter can be removed with a global shutter or stacked sensor. That makes enough space for IBIS without increasing thickness. P.S.: M11 applies digital stabilization to the live view. It helps with focusing when using a magnified view. Then you’d have to move the lens rear element forward to keep the register distance. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 12 Share #396 Posted March 12 7 hours ago, henning said: ...back to the topic of IBIS relating to camera technology: I think the eventual evolution of camera gear will arrive at global shutters and digital stabilization. No sensor on wobbly longlegs, needing extra space to freely dance. I suspect that we will eventually gain a 'virtual tripod' with the entire camera fitted with gyros and linked to gps and able to hold itself steady, even in shaky hands. Until then I too will do without IBIS .....😉 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 12 Share #397 Posted March 12 Digital stabilization already exists. The thing holding it back is the larger sensor needed making for a larger camera , lenses with extended coverage, higher costs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 12 Share #398 Posted March 12 1 minute ago, jaapv said: ..... higher costs. We're talking Leica here. Who worries about such trivia?😆 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted March 12 Share #399 Posted March 12 (edited) vor 10 Minuten schrieb jaapv: Digital stabilization already exists. The thing holding it back is the larger sensor needed making for a larger camera , lenses with extended coverage, higher costs. Again, this is only the case, when you talk about video stabilization (if you are not willing to accept a crop). For stills, it is no solution because you'll still have the motion blur. vor einer Stunde schrieb jdlaing: Then you’d have to move the lens rear element forward to keep the register distance. No, we discussed that already earlier here. You can place the electro-mechanics on the front side of the sensor when the mechanical shutter got eliminated. Edited March 12 by 3D-Kraft.com 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted March 12 Share #400 Posted March 12 1 hour ago, jdlaing said: Then you’d have to move the lens rear element forward to keep the register distance. The IBIS mechanism could be in front of the sensor, where the mechanical shutter resides. However, the thickness matters mostly where we hold it. Moving only the lens mount should be OK. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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