Would you buy a CL fullframe 24 mpx camera?

[LocalHero1953]

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Just now, Pelu2010 said:

I want to clarify that we weren't discussing or pleading for lower prices.

I didn't think you were - I was just responding to a post about an 'entry camera', which I understand to be a cheap(er) one than the main product ranges. 

[lct]

24 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I would be very pleased if Leica introduced a [full frame CL / small SL / Panasonic S9 with built-in EVF / L-Mount EVF M🙄], but I suspect Leica sees the Q as addressing that niche (small full-frame), even though that leaves some customers wishes unfulfilled.

I would be pleased too and we would not be alone if i read well this forum. As for considering a $6K camera addressing such a niche, i could not disagree more. What misses at Leica is an affordable camera with interchangeable lenses IMHO. Two other members of the L Allianz have shown the way to go so i hope Leica will follow the same route if they did not decide to do it already. YMMV 😎

Edited November 19, 2024 by lct

[Ko.Fe.]

25 minutes ago, lct said:

I would be pleased too and we would not be alone if i read well this forum. As for considering a $6K camera addressing such a niche, i could not disagree more. What misses at Leica is an affordable camera with interchangeable lenses IMHO. Two other members of the L Allianz have shown the way to go so i hope Leica will follow the same route if they did not decide to do it already. YMMV 😎

But why? Want it not expensive - get Panasonic. Want to feel fancy - get Leica.

LCAG can't compete with cheap labour force of China. This is how Panasonic gets prices low.

Do I want made in China Leica?

Not really... I have old Ricoh GRD cameras with matching price. But even Ricoh, their GR are Vietnam made, not China anymore. 

Leica is the last significant manufacturer of cameras and lenses in Europe. They have to pay decent wages, not China's ones. 

[Pelu2010]

38 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

But why? Want it not expensive - get Panasonic. Want to feel fancy - get Leica.

LCAG can't compete with cheap labour force of China. This is how Panasonic gets prices low.

Do I want made in China Leica?

Not really... I have old Ricoh GRD cameras with matching price. But even Ricoh, their GR are Vietnam made, not China anymore. 

Leica is the last significant manufacturer of cameras and lenses in Europe. They have to pay decent wages, not China's ones. 

I would say that the camera is assembled in germany. I bet many parts come form around the world. 

It's not possible to make every screw yourself. 

Like Swiss watches too. 

[Martin B]

On 10/31/2024 at 6:39 AM, Pelu2010 said:

Hey, 

 

if Leica would build a fullframe CL with L mount and USB-C port, would you buy it? 
 

 

 

I like this idea - with one change I would like to see - M-mount instead of L-mount. Don't like to play with adapters since I won't vest into the L-mount and into bulkier lenses (no need for AF either). 

But it will remain an idea - Leica won't get into in-house competition with its own Q- and SL series (all EVF-based).

[Ko.Fe.]

14 minutes ago, Pelu2010 said:

I would say that the camera is assembled in germany. I bet many parts come form around the world. 

It's not possible to make every screw yourself. 

Like Swiss watches too. 

"Bet" is not valuable argument, sorry. You have to know for sure the supply chain.

Where are bicycles chains still made in Germany, for example. And screws as well.

https://www.gueldner.com/home.php

[Pelu2010]

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2 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

"Bet" is not valuable argument, sorry. You have to know for sure the supply chain.

Where are bicycles chains still made in Germany, for example. And screws as well.

https://www.gueldner.com/home.php

screws was an example. 

there is no sensor producer in germany. 

And even if there are suppliers in germany, that does not mean that the parts are produced in germany. 

We know for sure  that the camera is assembled, tested and reviewed in germany. 

 

[Le Chef]

“Made in Germany” is a marketing tool. You can assemble any product anywhere, using materials sourced from around the globe. The key, and the only thing that matters, is the stringency of the quality control process.

[lct]

4 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

[...] But why? Want it not expensive - get Panasonic. Want to feel fancy - get Leica.

For the same reason as there are "PanaLeica" cameras for 20+ years but also because current Sigma and Panasonic cameras cannot recognize the 6-bit code of M lenses. The digital CL could do that in crop mode so i expect a new compact mirrorless camera to do the same in FF format.

[Martin B]

4 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

But why? Want it not expensive - get Panasonic. Want to feel fancy - get Leica.

 

Panasonic was a couple years ago an alternative to have EVF and use M-lenses for a more affordable price. Problem remained with all adapted lens solutions that not all M-lenses performed very well with the Panasonic sensor. More recently the Nikon Zf has IMO replaced Panasonic MLC as better option to use M-lenses with MLC/EVF-based camera (and not going with more bulky and expensive SL series). 

[Pelu2010]

45 minutes ago, Martin B said:

Panasonic was a couple years ago an alternative to have EVF and use M-lenses for a more affordable price. Problem remained with all adapted lens solutions that not all M-lenses performed very well with the Panasonic sensor. More recently the Nikon Zf has IMO replaced Panasonic MLC as better option to use M-lenses with MLC/EVF-based camera (and not going with more bulky and expensive SL series). 

Hi Martin, 

that might be! 
interesting camera. Interesting focus system and it’s quite small too. 
I like the layout of the dials. 
Reminds me of the F3. 

Maybe some sample images? 
 

Cheers 🥂 

 

[Ko.Fe.]

2 hours ago, lct said:

For the same reason as there are "PanaLeica" cameras for 20+ years but also because current Sigma and Panasonic cameras cannot recognize the 6-bit code of M lenses. The digital CL could do that in crop mode so i expect a new compact mirrorless camera to do the same in FF format.

IMO, 6-bit code is overrated. I'm periodically forgetting to select correct lens profile between 21, 35 and 50. Difference is not significant and it is not a big deal to find something close in LR's lenses profile.

2 hours ago, Martin B said:

Panasonic was a couple years ago an alternative to have EVF and use M-lenses for a more affordable price. Problem remained with all adapted lens solutions that not all M-lenses performed very well with the Panasonic sensor. More recently the Nikon Zf has IMO replaced Panasonic MLC as better option to use M-lenses with MLC/EVF-based camera (and not going with more bulky and expensive SL series). 

Some Sony cameras will take even 21 RF lenses without issues. And where is M AF adapter for Sony cameras. Not cheap, but slick. Or older, not expensive version is also available. Speaking about bulk, I could not find anything from L to be as compact as third party AF lenses for Sony. 

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

IMO, 6-bit code is overrated. I'm periodically forgetting to select correct lens profile between 21, 35 and 50. Difference is not significant and it is not a big deal to find something close in LR's lenses profile [...]

The camera needs to know the focal length of lenses for some features like LPC or auto iso.

[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, lct said:

The camera needs to know the focal length of lenses for some features like LPC or auto iso.

Or IBIS, where it exists. Some lens-specific corrections must be baked into raw files on M cameras.

[Pelu2010]

Some people paint the coding on the lenses ….

[Pelu2010]

21 minutes ago, lct said:

The camera needs to know the focal length of lenses for some features like LPC or auto iso.

 

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

Or IBIS, where it exists. Some lens-specific corrections must be baked into raw files on M cameras.

True , true , true 

[m.obi255]

I like my CL, some of the better lenses (TL 35mm and 60mm) are bulky enough at APSc. The L mount lenses are huge, also a lot more expensive. I just feel this would have the problem I find my Sony cameras had. Small bodies and massive lenses which didn’t make for a great overall experience.

[Markey]

44 minutes ago, m.obi255 said:

I like my CL, some of the better lenses (TL 35mm and 60mm) are bulky enough at APSc. The L mount lenses are huge, also a lot more expensive. I just feel this would have the problem I find my Sony cameras had. Small bodies and massive lenses which didn’t make for a great overall experience.

Kept hold of my CL but sold the lenses .

I use the 24 70 on it these days and also my M lenses.

Apart from my 246 its probably my most used outfit.

The SL2s gets an occasional run out with the 90 280 but I`m just as likely to use that lens on my CL too.

Just never really gelled with that larger SL body.

So the answer to the question is yes .

Edited November 19, 2024 by Markey

[SrMi]

9 hours ago, m.obi255 said:

I like my CL, some of the better lenses (TL 35mm and 60mm) are bulky enough at APSc. The L mount lenses are huge, also a lot more expensive. I just feel this would have the problem I find my Sony cameras had. Small bodies and massive lenses which didn’t make for a great overall experience.

Sigma Contemporary lenses are pretty small and quite good.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Ko.Fe.]

51 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Sigma Contemporary lenses are pretty small and quite good.

They are not as compact as Samyang made , not to mention new 3 in 1 Rokinon available for Sony.