Why Doesn't Leica Provide Software to Match RAW Files with Their Unique JPEG Colors?

[hong kong boy]

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I've been a Leica user for a while now, and one thing that continues to puzzle me is why Leica hasn't provided software that can perfectly match their RAW files with the unique, highly regarded JPEG colors straight out of the camera. Leica is known for its distinctive color science, and many of us appreciate the beautiful tones and hues captured in the JPEGs. However, when working with RAW files, it can be challenging to replicate those exact colors, even with meticulous post-processing.

Interestingly, other brands have addressed this issue. For example, Fujifilm collaborated with Capture One to offer film simulations that match their well-known JPEG profiles directly in the RAW editing software. This allows Fujifilm users to achieve the same look in their RAW edits as they do in-camera, seamlessly blending flexibility with the brand's signature aesthetics. Given how important color accuracy is to the Leica experience, it seems logical that Leica could offer something similar—dedicated software or presets to help us achieve the same look in our RAW edits. It would be a significant value add for photographers who want the flexibility of RAW but don’t want to compromise on the signature Leica look.

Any thoughts on this? Do you think Leica should provide such a tool, or have you found effective methods to replicate the JPEG colors in your RAW edits? Looking forward to hearing your experiences and ideas.

[pgk]

If you are happy with the colours of ooc jpegs why would you need to match them with raw files? There is no such thing as 'colour accuracy' and in over 40 years of Leica M usage I can't figure out exactly what a signature Leica look could be.

[lct]

Because people liking jpeg colors don't shoot raw and those liking raw colors or lack thereof don't shoot jpegs i suspect but it is just a guess on my part. BTW why shooting raw if you like jpeg colors? Suffice it to save your jpegs as tif files and work on them in PP if needed. This is called "poor man's raw" and works fine for me from time to time.

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, hong kong boy said:

I've been a Leica user for a while now, and one thing that continues to puzzle me is why Leica hasn't provided software that can perfectly match their RAW files with the unique, highly regarded JPEG colors straight out of the camera.

Leica is the only major camera manufacturer that doesn't offer this. It's very useful to have a reference raw converter. I like the default colours of Nikon's in-camera jpegs, but I also like the flexibility of shooting raw. Because Nikon provides a raw converter, NX Studio, with default output that's very close to those jpegs, I never have to bother shooting raw + jpeg, I can just shoot raw and have the best of both worlds. All the Nikon Picture Controls like Vivid or Portrait can be applied in post.

It wouldn't even be necessary for Leica to do much work. Several camera makers, including Fuji, have done a deal with Silkypix to make a customised manufacturer-specific version of their converter that can be made available for free download (the previous version of Nikon's converter was also apparently based on Silkypix, though the interface was very different - I don't know if the current one uses their technology). The Fuji version of Silkypix, Raw File Converter EX 3.0, supports the film simulations.

Until quite recently there were also free manufacturer-specific versions of Capture One Express for Fuji, Sony and Nikon, which I assume were also made as the result of some deal with the camera makers. But these were unceremoniously discontinued at very short notice, which included killing already installed copies (unless you have an old version like 12.1.5 or earlier, before they added the 'kill switch'). I'd find it very hard to trust any free version of C1 after this (or C1 in general). Fuji seems to be the only manufacturer that has a current deal with C1, and the new converter is less functional than the Fuji version of C1 Express was (they've removed the Basic Color Editor etc.). Maybe C1 thought Express was too close to the full package. It's a pity, because C1 Express was slicker and faster than Silkypix.

Incidentally, Leica did at one point bundle an earlier 'lite' version of C1, Capture One LE, with the M8. I don't know why they stopped doing that with later models.

Edited September 3, 2024 by Anbaric

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I want this as well. Personally, I think all the *I shoot RAW!. I don't care about no stinkin' jpegs!* are missing the point. It's a start point, not an end one. And ESPECIALLY, I would love to have the monochrome output simulated as a start point in LR. Fotos can do it but you can't do anything to the files without sending to LR which dumps all the metadata. Leica knows it's a thing as they implement the *Leica looks* on new cameras. But they haven't got the memo that raw shooters might want this as well.

Leica do work directly with Adobe and C1 so I'm not actually sure why they haven't done this. Just add it to the little things that annoys pile.

Gordon

[BWColor]

When you consider what we are discussing, don’t you think that what we popularly call AI could eventually be incorporated into editing software and review your edits over the last few thousand images and then provide a much better starting point when editing RAW files.  I would think that your “style”  and “preferences” could be understood and applied, unless there isn’t any consistency in your treatment of raw files.

[frame-it]

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26 minutes ago, BWColor said:

could eventually be incorporated into editing software

already has

[BWColor]

What software analyzes your style in the background and then can be applied globally to imports?

[jakontil]

My preference isnt the leica jpeg so i dont want their raw to be like one

[elmars]

As far as I know Leica is working on implementing develop presets for Lightroom in the DNG to match the JPG style if someone wants. Similar to perspective control data or the b&w-toning in the M11-Monochrom. But as all of us know, Leica is a small company and it can take time. 

[elmars]

That is correct. But if pc is activated in the camera, it is applied automatically with importing the photo in LR. The activation is written in the metadata as a develop setting. Same with monochrome toning. 

Edited September 4, 2024 by elmars

[LBJ2]

20 hours ago, hong kong boy said:

I've been a Leica user for a while now, and one thing that continues to puzzle me is why Leica hasn't provided software that can perfectly match their RAW files with the unique, highly regarded JPEG colors straight out of the camera. Leica is known for its distinctive color science, and many of us appreciate the beautiful tones and hues captured in the JPEGs. However, when working with RAW files, it can be challenging to replicate those exact colors, even with meticulous post-processing.

Interestingly, other brands have addressed this issue. For example, Fujifilm collaborated with Capture One to offer film simulations that match their well-known JPEG profiles directly in the RAW editing software. This allows Fujifilm users to achieve the same look in their RAW edits as they do in-camera, seamlessly blending flexibility with the brand's signature aesthetics. Given how important color accuracy is to the Leica experience, it seems logical that Leica could offer something similar—dedicated software or presets to help us achieve the same look in our RAW edits. It would be a significant value add for photographers who want the flexibility of RAW but don’t want to compromise on the signature Leica look.

Any thoughts on this? Do you think Leica should provide such a tool, or have you found effective methods to replicate the JPEG colors in your RAW edits? Looking forward to hearing your experiences and ideas.

Perhaps Leica Looks ( available for only some Leica camera models) through the Fotos app is the start of such a service. Nothing more than a guess, but maybe not too far off from what might be. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

Indeed, but it is meant more for jpgs for immediate viewing. Otherwise (if not switched on) it is just one click away in DNG.

I'd largely agree, but the benefit of turning PC on for DNGs is that you can ensure that your corrected image fits into the frame. Very easy to lose the top of a spire, for example, once the image is corrected. This does require you to use the LCD/Visoflex so not a real benefit to many of us

[elmars]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Al Brown:

Indeed, but it is meant more for jpgs for immediate viewing.

No!

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, Corius said:

I'd largely agree, but the benefit of turning PC on for DNGs is that you can ensure that your corrected image fits into the frame. Very easy to lose the top of a spire, for example, once the image is corrected. This does require you to use the LCD/Visoflex so not a real benefit to many of us

i think the M11 overcorrects the PC. I get better results in LrC or C1

[SrMi]

29 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

i think the M11 overcorrects the PC. I get better results in LrC or C1

It depends. I did demonstrate that LPC can do a better job than LrC's Auto Transform. See my images from Prague, shot with M11 and most often with LPC. Very rarely did I have to switch from LPC to manual. I turn LPC off when the angles are too extreme. LPC does not only correct for "shift" but also keeps the image level.

[frame-it]

On 9/4/2024 at 7:57 AM, BWColor said:

What software analyzes your style in the background and then can be applied globally to imports?

you said editing software, also works with color by the way.

[costa43]

Not sure about jpegs as I have never really shot any besides the CCD generation of cameras in black and white. I do think a profile mimicking the dng colour of each of their legacy digital bodies would be fun and useful for many who are wanting a starting point or have a strong preference for a previous camera’s colour profile. It’s a no lose to the photographer if they offer it, you don’t have to use them. I always develop my own looks and that’s part of the fun for me but giving people the choice is not a bad idea. 

Edited September 9, 2024 by costa43