What are the odds that 1) an SL3-S will exist and 2) it'll have a flippy screen like the SL3

[hellobrandonscott]

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I'm looking to add another SL body and waffling between waiting some months for a potential SL3-S announcement at the end of the year or instead just getting an SL2-S. If the SL3-S even comes to fruition, if it has a flippy screen, I'm out and will just get an SL2-S. I can only imagine that they would indeed include a flippy screen if they end up making an SL3-S, right? 

Edited July 18, 2024 by hellobrandonscott

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[goodbokeh]

I think the odds of a SL3-S are high. The SL3 is not a good hybrid camera due to it's electronic shutter's being very slow, which causes bad rolling shutter in video. The 24 MP sensor continues to be a favorite sweet spot of many Leica M lens owners using their glass on a SL body. The cost of the SL3-S would be lower, and would offer benefits in lower noise and better color accuracy in low light. Most important of all is that the SL2-S has been a popular seller for Leica and a SL3-S would be too.

[hellobrandonscott]

1 minute ago, goodbokeh said:

I think the odds of a SL3-S are high. The SL3 is not a good hybrid camera due to it's electronic shutter's being very slow, which causes bad rolling shutter in video. The 24 MP sensor continues to be a favorite sweet spot of many Leica M lens owners using their glass on a SL body. The cost of the SL3-S would be lower, and would offer benefits in lower noise and better color accuracy in low light. Most important of all is that the SL2-S has been a popular seller for Leica and a SL3-S would be too.

It's been my absolute favorite camera to date. I currently have three of them and they've been incredible. Would have zero issues just staying with the SL2-S for the next several years. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

I sold on my SL2 a while ago because the sensor is at least a year older than the nice modern sensor in the SL2-S.  But the SL3 offers three resolutions, so is there as much need for an SL3-S?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

An SL3-S may come but it can't just be a lower res version of the SL3. Tri resolution has made that not an option. The current SL3 has the low light performance of the SL2-S. Maybe a touch better. *If* and it's an all caps IF Leica can or is even willing to buy a stacked sensor then it's a viable option. Could be the Sony A9II sensor which is good. Better the A1. But either of these will cost more, not less. I'm all in for a SL3-S with the Sony A1 sensor. Actually, I just want EFCS on the current SL3 and I'm done.

Gordon

[LocalHero1953]

The first -S was sold firstly as not chasing mass market high res specs, and so could be cheaper; secondly, it had higher video specs. After firmware upgrades, however, the SL2 and SL2-S cannot easily be distinguished on video now (SL2-S offers raw output to HDMI, but the SL2 does not).

The 'sleeper' advantages of the SL2-S sensor were recognised later: the improved performance of noise and colour in low light/high ISO. Now that the SL3 has more or less caught up with the SL2-S, could they again pick a cheaper sensor for the SL3-S that would give practically better low light performance by not chasing resolution?

And what video features could they give the SL3-S that the SL3 does not have? To me that means internal raw, and (copying Panasonic, Sigma and BM, allowing external SSD recording via USB as an extension of the internal CFe). The flip screen is a given on a more video-centric camera; I would like to see it bigger, to make it easier to manage video during recording, and avoid using an external monitor. I guess it would not be made bigger if the SL3-S is to be manufactured as a SL3 in a lower cost garb.

Edited July 19, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[hoolyproductions]

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41 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The current SL3 has the low light performance of the SL2-S. Maybe a touch better.

I'm looking forward to putting this to the test when my SL3 finally arrives. From what I've seen this might be correct at 'reasonable' ISOs, but from ISO 12,500-25,000 I'm thinking SL2-S will still have a significant advantage.  Not a lot of people regularly use those ISOs, but I am one of them (music photography in dark dingy music bars during the Finnish winter).

When the SL3 was announced I also had my doubts that they would make an SL3-S, but I think the fact they added time code synchronisation to the SL3 gives a strong hint they will still release an SL3-S positioned for video work (and better high iso performance)?

[jaapv]

I think that it exists already in the form of the Panasonic S5ii and that we are waiting for Leica to Leicafy it. The convergence between the technology of the two brands is already quite noticeable in the SL3 and Panasonic is known to have co-developed the camera in cooperation with Leica. 

[Viv]

27:1

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I think that it exists already in the form of the Panasonic S5ii and that we are waiting for Leica to Leicafy it. 

I hope not - even the x version has video limitations: UHD 25fps can only be done in crop (APSC) view for internal recording. Crop recording is OK if you're using your camera & lens kit just for video, but it's a nuisance if, like me, you use them for stills and video - the lenses bought for full-frame angles of view are awkward for APSC. The SL2-S uses the full frame.

There is nothing in the S5ii or S5iix that offers much more over the SL2-S. It's a useful, cheaper alternative, but that's it.

[hoolyproductions]

9 hours ago, hellobrandonscott said:

 I can only imagine that they would indeed include a flippy screen if they end up making an SL3-S, right? 

I would be astonished if any SL3-S did not have an identical body/controls as the SL3 (including the flip screen) - I think this is how Leica minimise the production costs by having identical bodies.

[hansvons]

13 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

There is nothing in the S5ii or S5iix that offers much more over the SL2-S. It's a useful, cheaper alternative, but that's it.

I wouldn’t say that. Video IBIS is better (ludicrously good) and AF is on another level, too. In terms of video specs, they roughl match in every day life, and the SL2-S has a solid advantage in colour science. That, of course, is a matter of taste. For high-end post, the SL2-S misses a proper ACES ID, which Panasonic provides. 

8 hours ago, hellobrandonscott said:

Would have zero issues just staying with the SL2-S for the next several years. 

Exactly my sentiment. Best all-around camera ever. 

But I guess they will bring a 24MP SL3-S. Chances are high that it won’t be cheaper than the SL3 and aimed more to the reportage folks with vastly improved AF, much higher frame rates etc. but the same video specs as the S5IIx. Think of a Canon R1 in the SL3 housing. Of course I might be wrong, though. 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I hope not - even the x version has video limitations: UHD 25fps can only be done in crop (APSC) view for internal recording. Crop recording is OK if you're using your camera & lens kit just for video, but it's a nuisance if, like me, you use them for stills and video - the lenses bought for full-frame angles of view are awkward for APSC. The SL2-S uses the full frame.

There is nothing in the S5ii or S5iix that offers much more over the SL2-S. It's a useful, cheaper alternative, but that's it.

Superior AF for one thing, automatic magnification with manual focus correction, preburst, in-camera focus stacking, pixel shift hi-res, and much more. Better ergonomics for my hands, more compact. Flippy LCD. .  Better sensor.  BTW the S5iiX offers stabilization on Steadycam level, you can get a stable shot when running. And Open Gate. 

[LocalHero1953]

44 minutes ago, hansvons said:

I wouldn’t say that. Video IBIS is better (ludicrously good) and AF is on another level, too. In terms of video specs, they roughl match in every day life, and the SL2-S has a solid advantage in colour science. That, of course, is a matter of taste. For high-end post, the SL2-S misses a proper ACES ID, which Panasonic provides. 

Exactly my sentiment. Best all-around camera ever. 

But I guess they will bring a 24MP SL3-S. Chances are high that it won’t be cheaper than the SL3 and aimed more to the reportage folks with vastly improved AF, much higher frame rates etc. but the same video specs as the S5IIx. Think of a Canon R1 in the SL3 housing. Of course I might be wrong, though. 

I should have stated 'for my use'. I don't use video AF much, except as occasional back button AF, and have not had much occasion to rely on video IBIS (though I may take your advice elsewhere about the limited value of gimbals!).

9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Superior AF for one thing, automatic magnification with manual focus correction, preburst, in-camera focus stacking, pixel shift hi-res, and much more. Better ergonomics for my hands, more compact. 

For stills, it would be nice to have better AF, but it's not at the top end of my priorities. The others you list are not important for me.

--------

I might get a S5iix as a second/alternative video camera, though I don't have a need for one now. More fundamentally I would not buy a S5iix in Leica clothes as a replacement for my SL2-S. It would have to be a lot more distinctive than that. But Leica does have a habit of adding something unexpected and attractive in its new releases.

Edited July 19, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[SrMi]

10 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Superior AF for one thing, automatic magnification with manual focus correction, preburst, in-camera focus stacking, pixel shift hi-res, and much more. Better ergonomics for my hands, more compact. Flippy LCD. .  Better sensor.  BTW the S5iiX offers stabilization on Steadycam level, you can get a stable shot when running. 

Why do you think that S5ii has a better sensor?

The Panasonic menus are horrible, when compared to Leica’s menu, exemplified by holding D-Lux 7 vs 8.

 

[jaapv]

It is a new sensor over the S5 co-developed with Leica -and it shows  both in colour and acuity. I would be surprised if Leica didn’t opt for it for an SL3S. It would be quite a waste of effort and investment. As for the menus, that is an OSX-Windows type of argument. Obviously Leica would use their own UI skin. As it happens I have a clear preference for the Panasonic system as it allows me to set up the camera to be used as closely to an analog one as possible. Once the user understands the menu setup it is very logical and easy to use. And one can switch user profiles or choose burst rates etc. without delving into menus or taking the camera off ones eye. But that is all personal preference and not an argument for one camera or the other and exactly what I mean with Leicafied. 
I know nothing about Panaleicas, but it is far more rational to co- develop two virtually identical cameras by combining resources  instead of doing so individually. 

 This makes me wonder about Sigma lenses. There has been quite a shift  optically for the better with Sigma lately. And fewer technical problems with Leica AF lenses. 

[frame-it]

16 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Once the user understands the menu setup it is very logical and easy to use. And one can switch user profiles or choose burst rates etc. without delving into menus or taking the camera off ones eye

agree 200%, its sad that even in 2024 some photographers use the menu systems as an excuse to bash other cameras, SL menus are equally as deep as many other systems..and all systems have a favorites/shortcuts menu

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, hoolyproductions said:

I would be astonished if any SL3-S did not have an identical body/controls as the SL3 (including the flip screen) - I think this is how Leica minimise the production costs by having identical bodies.

or to minimize the production costs they simply add more video options via firmware to the SL3 and forget the SL3S?

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[jaapv]

Possibly. But there is a good market for native 24 MP cameras -including me. 

[frame-it]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Possibly. But there is a good market for native 24 MP cameras -including me. 

very true, i also prefer 24mp, for 50mp and above it makes more sense for the sensor size to be larger but its "apparently" a multi-res sensor [via firmware]

 

[though some armchair experts still think 35mm film looks the same as medium/large format film ;)]