M240 battery

[scgross]

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I need a new battery for my M240.

I  was told that the batteries are discontinued and not available.

Any help?

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[lct]

Here with charger.

[sometimesmaybe]

1 hour ago, scgross said:

I  was told that the batteries are discontinued and not available.

there are still loads of them floating around. i have 3 to keep my m246 going forever 

[jaeger]

When there is demands, China will fulfill the market.  lol

[bocaburger]

I have 2 M240's which are my main travel cameras, so as soon as I saw the BP-SCL2 listed as discontinued on B&H I purchased 3 new ones (they had 4, I opted to leave 1 for someone else) from another authorized Leica dealer.  These are labeled 2021 so have been sitting on the shelf for 3 years but the 4 other ones I have are all from 2013 and still take a 100% charge.  I don't know if that means they actually have their full original capacity or just 100% of some fraction of original but each one still gets me about 10 days of travel shooting.  I don't use LV, EVF or auto-review and fortuitously the BP-SCL2 was designed with much greater capacity than the M9 or M10 batteries oweing to the M240 being capable of video.  
 

So I'm not panicked at this point and I'm not expecting Leica to stock repair parts forever but being retired now I don't feel it makes sense for me to buy any more multi-thousand-dollar Leica cameras if battery unavailability is going to eventually brick otherwise perfectly-functioning cameras.  I can still get new aftermarket batteries for my 2005 Canon 5D but I understand the salient difference between the situations.  I also understood about the DMR because so few of them were sold, but M cameras are a different story.  

Edited July 18, 2024 by bocaburger

[lct]

14 hours ago, jaeger said:

When there is demands, China will fulfill the market.  lol

I wish they would in this case. I bought 2 batteries with my new M240 but they are 10+ years old now so i would be worried if this good body were bricked for lack of spare parts really. Please be kind, dear Chinese battery makers save us poor Leica M240 users 🙏

[jdlaing]

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1 hour ago, lct said:

I wish they would in this case. I bought 2 batteries with my new M240 but they are 10+ years old now so i would be worried if this good body were bricked for lack of spare parts really. Please be kind, dear Chinese battery makers save us poor Leica M240 users 🙏

Not enough market for 3rd party batteries.

[pippy]

On 7/18/2024 at 9:26 AM, Al Brown said:

...The M8/9 batteries are the last and only ones available in the third party versions...

But according to the official Leica site they are still available to buy brand-new;

https://leica-camera.com/en-GB/photography/accessories/batteries/rechargable-battery-for-m8m9m-em-monochrom#

Philip.

[pippy]

17 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Could be, could be. Probably not the freshest and with some enviable past shelf life, but available.

Hmmm.....

I've just had a chat with Ivor at Red Dot. When we were talking he logged-in to the appropriate site and he told me that the battery for the M240 is no longer listed as being available to order from Leica.

I was just about to type that it could simply be that Leica, themselves, are awaiting delivery of a new batch from the manufacturer but before I hit the 'Post' button Ivor called me back to say that he had just spoken to someone at the Leica sales desk who confirmed that the battery has, indeed, been discontinued!...

A strange state of affairs if we consider that these batteries were used by the M-E 240 which was still in production as recently as four years ago but I've had a very perfunctory google and, in the EU and the UK, there seems to be no legal requirement whatsoever which would require a manufacturer to continue to supply 'spares' for items which have been discontinued.

I wonder if anyone from Leica themselves wouold like to explain the exact state of affairs?

I will cut'n'paste this reply in another thread which is discussing the same point.

Philip.

[fotomas]

Very bad and sad story. Leica becomes more and more user unfriendly. The lens-cap for the Summicron ASPH1 is the same unpleasant thing, but not as critical.
I ordered two of this batteries in 2020 for about 125,00 € each. Now they raised the price to insane 170,00 € and let us down. I have three M body's (M 240, M-P 240 & M 246). So with all additional stuff I invested about 20.000,00 €. If there are no more batteries for it it will all become worthless.

If I can't use them anymore I will not invest in Leica again. Glad I still have my M6s. Maybe back to analog will be the future...

Maybe we should start a petition?

[bocaburger]

8 minutes ago, fotomas said:

Very bad and sad story. Leica becomes more and more user unfriendly...If there are no more batteries for it it will all become worthless...

If I can't use them anymore I will not invest in Leica again...

Maybe we should start a petition?

 

I don't disagree but also I can't think of any other brand who supplies OEM batteries for their models as old as the M240.  The difference is there are often 3rd-party equivalents available to keep those cameras going.  In the case of Leica I would presume that demand is too low for a profitable quantity to be produced.  But just kicking this around in my head. typically 3rd-party batteries are 50% or less the cost of OEM, and are sold through mass wholesale distribution to many end-resellers.  So I wonder, would it be profitable for a 3rd-party manufacturer to produce a smaller-scale "run" of BP-SCL2 clones but directly for a single (or perhaps 1 US and 1 European) reseller, and to be sold at the OEM price (215USD presently)?  Also, given that Leica has no interest in it anymore might they be amenable to donating the specs and any related IP, thus obviating the need for the 3rd-party mfr to R&D from scratch. 

Another possibility I wonder is if someone could produce a "smart" adapter that would accept an existing 3rd-party battery?  Obvioiusly the adapted battery would need to be physically smaller than the BP-SCL-2 but that one is about double the capacity it needs to be, at least for everyone who rarely or never shoots video. 

Yet another possibility would be if someone could reburbish "dead" BP-SCL-2's in the way someone refurbished the DMR batteries back in the day. 

Lastly, I recently returned from a trip whereI shot 344 images using one battery from 2013 and it was still on 35% when I got home.  LiION batteries supposedly lose a certain percentage of their full-charge capacity every year from the moment of manufacture, so if brand-new capacity is (I have read) up to 700 shots, then if 65% of this one is 344, its total capacity is still 530, meaning in 10 years it has lost only 25% or roughly 2.3%/year.   The surplus capacity of the M240 batteries could be a real godsend for us.  The M10-generation, when Leica discontinues its batteries, may not fare as well. 

[Einst_Stein]

I wonder if it is possible, or if anyone tried, to put the battery cells from other battery type into the used M240 battery package.

[pippy]

1 hour ago, bocaburger said:

...I recently returned from a trip whereI shot 344 images using one battery from 2013 and it was still on 35% when I got home.  LiION batteries supposedly lose a certain percentage of their full-charge capacity every year from the moment of manufacture, so if brand-new capacity is (I have read) up to 700 shots, then if 65% of this one is 344, its total capacity is still 530, meaning in 10 years it has lost only 25% or roughly 2.3%/year.   The surplus capacity of the M240 batteries could be a real godsend for us...

Interesting numeric information, bocaburger, so thanks for posting it.

My own - and only(!) - battery for the M-D Typ262 is stamped '04 16' so I'm assuming this indicates a production date of either '4th week of 2016' or else 'April 2016'(*). Either date would make perfect sense as the M-D was released on the 28th April 2016 and the serial number of my camera, 4982421, seems to indicate that it was the 21st M-D made in the first production batch.

As such the battery is now 8 years old. On page 67 of the Leica Manual for the M-D Typ-262 (and presumably for all M240 series cameras?);

"The battery should be replaced after a maximum of four years as its performance deteriorates and reliable operation can no longer be guaranteed; particularly in cold conditions."

This indicates that Leica is telling all users of the M240 type cameras that even were they each to buy a new battery today they shouldn't rely on it being able to hold a charge after the end of July 2028. If the rumour of the battery having been discontinued IS true then this is an utterly shocking way for Leica to treat its customers.

To end on a slightly happier note, however, I have also just checked the batteries I have for the M Monochrom.

Of the four I have whose numbers are legible the production dates range from 29th week of 2011 through to the 42nd week of 2016. The three which are almost always the ones carried (one installed; two spares) happen to be a pair from 2011 and one from 2013. Although they are no longer at their peak-capacity I have almost never needed to resort to the third even when out on a seriously long and busy day's shooting. If the performance of these 11 and 13 year-old bateries is any indication of what I can expect from the battery for the M-D then perhaps things aren't quite as dark as feared?

I Live In Hope!......😸......

Philip.

* EDIT : As I've just seen a 14499 / BP-SCL2 battery marked 50 19 V it appears that Leica used the same XXYYZ system as with the batteries for the M8 / M9 where XX is the Week number and YY is the Year. I haven't the foggiest idea what the Z (here a V) indicates!

Edited July 19, 2024 by pippy

[GlennS]

I don't feel so bad dropping £150 on a new battery for mine the other week then.  There will be batteries floating around for years one way or the other, but "new" ones will become rare I guess.

If my 240 lasts me 5 more years and the two batteries I have are still going, I'll be happy with that.  10 years? We'll see!

[lct]

11 years here and still working. BTW just found a new battery in Paris. At 188 EUR shipping included 🙄 i will put it in a safe i believe pending  my current ones pushing daisies if not me...

[fotomas]

unfortunately you can't just store this batteries for years. Bought some years ago for some Nikon cameras and put them aside to have a spare when the used one failed. When this finally happen few years later the stored ones were all dead. You have to use them from time to time.

[mmradman]

19 hours ago, bocaburger said:

 

I don't disagree but also I can't think of any other brand who supplies OEM batteries for their models as old as the M240.  The difference is there are often 3rd-party equivalents available to keep those cameras going.  In the case of Leica I would presume that demand is too low for a profitable quantity to be produced.  But just kicking this around in my head. typically 3rd-party batteries are 50% or less the cost of OEM, and are sold through mass wholesale distribution to many end-resellers.  So I wonder, would it be profitable for a 3rd-party manufacturer to produce a smaller-scale "run" of BP-SCL2 clones but directly for a single (or perhaps 1 US and 1 European) reseller, and to be sold at the OEM price (215USD presently)?  Also, given that Leica has no interest in it anymore might they be amenable to donating the specs and any related IP, thus obviating the need for the 3rd-party mfr to R&D from scratch. 

Another possibility I wonder is if someone could produce a "smart" adapter that would accept an existing 3rd-party battery?  Obvioiusly the adapted battery would need to be physically smaller than the BP-SCL-2 but that one is about double the capacity it needs to be, at least for everyone who rarely or never shoots video. 

Yet another possibility would be if someone could reburbish "dead" BP-SCL-2's in the way someone refurbished the DMR batteries back in the day. 

Lastly, I recently returned from a trip whereI shot 344 images using one battery from 2013 and it was still on 35% when I got home.  LiION batteries supposedly lose a certain percentage of their full-charge capacity every year from the moment of manufacture, so if brand-new capacity is (I have read) up to 700 shots, then if 65% of this one is 344, its total capacity is still 530, meaning in 10 years it has lost only 25% or roughly 2.3%/year.   The surplus capacity of the M240 batteries could be a real godsend for us.  The M10-generation, when Leica discontinues its batteries, may not fare as

Actually there are other brands, in case of Nikon battery gets upgraded but form factor remains the same, battery is backward compatible but need compatible charger, models EN-EL15A, B, C or Enel18 also a b c.

 

Digital Ms are on fifth model with four different battery form factors, talking of complicated.

Edited July 20, 2024 by mmradman

[a.noctilux]

In my experience of M240 family's batteries, never had (have) something to complain.

With each M came one or two batteries 14499 and yesterday I checked every BP SCL2 batteriesI use, all is well.

Untill now, not one 14449 battery failed.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Datsch]

On 7/19/2024 at 1:11 PM, pippy said:

someone at the Leica sales desk who confirmed that the battery has, indeed, been discontinued

Thanks for this.

As of today, in the UK, I found these fairly quickly:

• 3 at Park Cameras
• 2 at Leicastore Manchester
• 'Low Stock' at Red Dot Camera
• 'Enquire for Reservation / 5-7 days' at Leicastore Mayfair
• 8 secondhand at mpb uk
• "This product is no longer available" at Clifton Cameras

In the US, I only looked at BHP :

• 'Discontinued' at https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894878-REG/Leica_14499_BP_SCL2_Li_Ion_Battery_Pack.html

 

 

Edited July 20, 2024 by Datsch

[bocaburger]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

In my experience of M240 family's batteries, never had (have) something to complain.

With each M came one or two batteries 14499 and yesterday I checked every BP SCL2 batteriesI use, all is well.

Untill now, not one 14449 battery failed.

Same here so far, and 4 being from 2013 and 2 of those bought second-hand with unknown history of use.  Much of these batteries' longevity I attribute to the extra-large capacity with which Leica imbued them to handle the power demands of shooting live-view video.  As I mentioned earlier, my experience is my 11 yr old batteries retain about 75% of their estimated full charge rangefinder-viewing still-photo minimal-chimping (my way of working) shooting capacity.  
 

There are 4 main ways these batteries could fail.  1) By defect.  Meaning something goes awry internally such that the battery either can't be charged or isn't able to power the camera.  2) By use.  Meaning the battery has been charged as many times as it can be (estimated by some sources as about 500 full recharges).  3) By age.  Meaning the natural decay of LiION over time even with minimal use.   And 4) By accident or mistreatment.  2) and 3) are probably the less likely possibilities for most of us and why most of us probably will see our bodies (camera and/or human LOL!) die first.  1) and 4) are the ones we have to worry about in a world where new production is discontinued.  And why having a spare or three, even used ones, may offer some worthwhile peace of mind.