Exposure Compensation on Thumbwheel -- accidental nudge?

[Al Brown]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I do not have M11 but have EV comp on thumbwheel.
I always take the camera out of the bag and put it in switched off.
It does move to +/- 0.7 occasionally when handling it while shooting, being hung over my shoulder and switched on. Just make a checklist of making it a second nature scanning  exposure compensation in the finder before pressing the trigger and you will be fine.

[swatch]

On 6/10/2024 at 6:39 PM, jaapv said:

Doesn’t anybody use manual exposure? I hardly ever use A as the traditional triangles and click counting are far more intuitive. And fixed ISO. All that automation and fiddling is so Sony. 

I don’t as I set shutter speed to 1/250 and aperture at f8 during street photography to control depth of field and freeze people’s motion, ISO will be set to auto.  I learn how the camera do the exposure and adjust it using exposure compensation dial.  This is a liberating way to just control one dial instead of managing two valuables (aperture and shutter dial).

[J.C.T.]

On 6/10/2024 at 3:59 AM, jaapv said:

Using an M camera in my book means going back to the essence of photography. Aperture and shutter speed,  ISO fixed to the conditions. The rest is up to the photographer. No camera controlling the user. 

I would certainly agree with the above with respect to film cameras. With digital Ms, auto ISO is practical--especially in very low light conditions with an M11M, for example. 

[jaapv]

I don't like Auto-ISO, I feel that it takes away control. Especially in low light, when highlights can screw up the exposure metering completely.

[SrMi]

30 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I don't like Auto-ISO, I feel that it takes away control. Especially in low light, when highlights can screw up the exposure metering completely.

You can screw up highlights with and without Auto-ISO equally quickly. I do not see why Auto-ISO would be a disadvantage. The advantage of Auto-ISO is that applying negative EC preserves exposure as it lowers ISO. Applying negative EC with fixed ISO lowers the exposure. 
The manual vs automatic discussion is independent from Auto-ISO discussion as Auto-ISO is one of the options for automatic mode.

[LikameLeica]

On 6/10/2024 at 5:37 PM, Datsch said:

I would like to ask any M11 users who have exposure comp set on their thumbwheel -- does it get nudged by mistake, eg putting camera in and out of bag?

If it does get adjusted, then the EV value is displayed in the OVF for 0.5s but that sounds rather easy to miss, especially if the camera is not held up to your eye at the time.

I know that exp comp will be shown on the back screen, but sometimes people have that switched off and I am specifically asking because it looks like the M11-D will have full time exposure comp on the thumbwheel and I'd like to know if that would be a pain? (Especially for someone like me who never uses it ...)

Thanks,

I have had my M11 since it was launched, I have the thumb wheel set for exposure compensation, and with a press of thumb wheel as function button,  I have it set for ISO. I have been using it this way since I have had the camera and do not find that the thumbwheel exposure compensation gets inadvertently moved very often.   This would not be a reason for me to not buy the camera.

[Datsch]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Thanks @Al Brown and @LikameLeica you both had the practical insight I was looking for -- nothing to worry about, thanks, you have put my mind at rest

I realise now that an accidental + or - 0.3 or 0.7 is no big deal anyway, and of couse the little LED in the OVF would be blnking too, quite hard to miss acutally ...

[Chris_Jenks]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:33 PM, LikameLeica said:

I have had my M11 since it was launched, I have the thumb wheel set for exposure compensation, and with a press of thumb wheel as function button,  I have it set for ISO. I have been using it this way since I have had the camera and do not find that the thumbwheel exposure compensation gets inadvertently moved very often.   This would not be a reason for me to not buy the camera.

Totally agree, the thumb press on the exposure comp button works perfectly for me, I am never troubled by accidentally changing compensation.

[lct]

8 hours ago, Chris_Jenks said:

the thumb press on the exposure comp button works perfectly for me, I am never troubled by accidentally changing compensation.

+1 and using a thumb rest can be a good way to avoid such accident.

[crons]

On 6/10/2024 at 2:37 PM, Datsch said:

I would like to ask any M11 users who have exposure comp set on their thumbwheel -- does it get nudged by mistake, eg putting camera in and out of bag?

If it does get adjusted, then the EV value is displayed in the OVF for 0.5s but that sounds rather easy to miss, especially if the camera is not held up to your eye at the time.

I know that exp comp will be shown on the back screen, but sometimes people have that switched off and I am specifically asking because it looks like the M11-D will have full time exposure comp on the thumbwheel and I'd like to know if that would be a pain? (Especially for someone like me who never uses it ...)

Thanks,

I disabled that because I don't use exp comp and this happens constantly. On the M10R I get a little dot that comes up that let's me know it is on. Should be the same on the M11. 

[crons]

On 6/10/2024 at 5:39 PM, jaapv said:

Doesn’t anybody use manual exposure? I hardly ever use A as the traditional triangles and click counting are far more intuitive. And fixed ISO. All that automation and fiddling is so Sony. 

I never use A modes and disabled exposure compensation. My thumbwheel only zooms for reviewing photos. I did it when I first got into Leica and was transitioning from mirroless AF cameras. 

I now go all manual all the time so the exposure is controlled by me and it is predictable. 

If I want brighter I open the aperture or lower the shutter speed. For darker the opposite. It's really not that hard to understand. And you get consistent exposure.

Edited June 21, 2024 by crons

[crons]

On 6/10/2024 at 5:44 PM, THEME said:

A is easy and helpful. M for street shooting or other faster exposure requirements.

A is unpredictable and ultimately takes the fun out of shooting. 

All manual exposure makes nothing faster. If anything that's what A is for. Let the camera think and you just press a button. The problem is the results are inconsistent. Especially since you're looking through a rangefinder and not an EVF, it's really hard to guess your exposure if you're on A. I'm on center weighted meter and moving the camera a little up or down depending on the scene can totally change the exposure. Now I have to guess how much exposure compensation to give it since i cant see it unless I switch live view on.  

The best way to learn and understand exposure is to control it yourself. 

Then the fun part is understanding that your meter arrows are only just a guide for you to decide. Exposing a person or a crowd in the middle of the day is not the same as if you turn the camera to a white wall or water in the same sunlight. You know in your head what your camera is doing because your exposure is locked manually. I know that if I'm at ISO400, F8, 1/1000 where the sun is blazing hot, if I turn and point my camera to the white wall I need to either go to f5.6 or 1/500 if i want a consistent exposure and don't want those photos too dark. 

You get to know your camera and your lens in a way you will never in Auto modes. You start to see it in your head like your camera sees. 

Another benefit of shooting the same camera and 2 lenses over and over when you don't have any other gear.   

[jaapv]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:31 PM, SrMi said:

You can screw up highlights with and without Auto-ISO equally quickly. I do not see why Auto-ISO would be a disadvantage. The advantage of Auto-ISO is that applying negative EC preserves exposure as it lowers ISO. Applying negative EC with fixed ISO lowers the exposure. 
The manual vs automatic discussion is independent from Auto-ISO discussion as Auto-ISO is one of the options for automatic mode.

It is not about screwing up highlights, it is about getting the image I want, not the one that the camera dictates. 

[crons]

26 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It is not about screwing up highlights, it is about getting the image I want, not the one that the camera dictates. 

Yes. It's like when you take driving classes and there's a guy next to you with a brake pedal stepping on it every 15 seconds like you're blind. I wanted to rip that thing out of there. Can you just let me drive? It makes it more difficult having someone stepping on the brake when I'm trying to do something else. 

Either I'm making the pictures or the camera is taking them but we can't be both fighting each other. Which is what Exposure Compensation is. Youre fighting the guy next to you stepping on a brake pedal while you're trying to drive. 

Edited June 21, 2024 by crons

[Derbyshire Man]

47 minutes ago, crons said:

I disabled that because I don't use exp comp and this happens constantly. On the M10R I get a little dot that comes up that let's me know it is on. Should be the same on the M11. 

It does have the same, one dot for exposure compensation another for exposure lock.

[Derbyshire Man]

3 minutes ago, crons said:

Yes. It's like when you take driving classes and there's a guy next to you with a brake pedal stepping on it every 15 seconds like you're blind. I wanted to rip that thing out of there. Can you just let me drive? It makes it more difficult having someone stepping on the brake when I'm trying to do something else. 

Please re-assure me you're not a trainee pilot or surgeon🤣

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, jaapv said:

It is not about screwing up highlights, it is about getting the image I want, not the one that the camera dictates. 

I don't understand. Could you provide an example?

Using Auto-ISO offers the same amount of control as using A or S mode with fixed ISO but requires fewer adjustments.

I assume you are always shooting in M mode with fixed ISO. Using M mode with Auto-ISO and in combination with EC gives you the same amount of control with fewer adjustments necessary.

Of course, there are situations, mainly when shooting a series of images, when using fixed ISO is better.

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, crons said:

Yes. It's like when you take driving classes and there's a guy next to you with a brake pedal stepping on it every 15 seconds like you're blind. I wanted to rip that thing out of there. Can you just let me drive? It makes it more difficult having someone stepping on the brake when I'm trying to do something else. 

Either I'm making the pictures or the camera is taking them but we can't be both fighting each other. Which is what Exposure Compensation is. Youre fighting the guy next to you stepping on a brake pedal while you're trying to drive. 

My version of Godwin's law says that as a photography thread grows longer, the probability of a comparison using cars approaches 1 🤣.

There is an argument for using fully manual mode. However, I do not see an argument using A mode without Auto-ISO. 

I would like to discuss concrete examples where Auto-ISO (with EC) makes you have less control than using fixed ISO.

[crons]

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

My version of Godwin's law says that as a photography thread grows longer, the probability of a comparison using cars approaches 1 🤣.

There is an argument for using fully manual mode. However, I do not see an argument using A mode without Auto-ISO. 

I would like to discuss concrete examples where Auto-ISO (with EC) makes you have less control than using fixed ISO.

The answer is there in my posts. If auto modes work for you then knock yourself out. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[lct]

Not sure where the problem is. In Auto iso M mode, isos are auto, apertures are manual and shutter speeds are either auto or manual at will so one can keep the same control over exposure as in full M mode if they wish.