Getting the colour right on the M11 {split-off thread}

[Edax]

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4 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Okay - here I've done the same:

This is actually a good idea of why I like the colour from the M11 so much - that blue is the colour of our blue skies - not too much Cyan

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These shots were with AWB, and not with a fixed in-camera setting? The reason for asking: with Daylight WB setting in my M11-P, I get 5150 / 23 WB setting as shot with Adobe Standard profile in LR Classic 13.3...

Edited May 30, 2024 by Edax

[don daniel]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb jonoslack:

Okay - here I've done the same:

This is actually a good idea of why I like the colour from the M11 so much - that blue is the colour of our blue skies - not too much Cyan

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Sorry, but that's exactly what bothers me the most. You show a noticeable magenta cast in this picture. I understand now why you prefer the M11 over all other cameras when it comes to white balance. You must also be dissatisfied with what all other Leica models and other camera brands offer. Because none of them color like the M11.

[jonoslack]

8 minutes ago, Edax said:

These shots were with AWB, and not with a fixed in-camera setting? The reason for asking: with Daylight WB setting in my M11-P, I get 5150 / 23 WB setting as shot with Adobe Standard profile in LR Classic 13.3...

They were certainly shot with Daylight WB setting which always yeilds 5,200 with +22 using Adobe Standard (and yes I'm using 13.3 Lightroom classic). Interesting that you get something different! (I have thousands of images with that basic setting). 

[jaapv]

Whilst conceding that appreciation of colour is subjective and individual, I really wonder why some people are still on a standard profile for the M11. I have most of my cameras profiled and tweaked to my taste ( except the M9 and SL601). I would not dream of demanding that a camera maker adapt his settings to my particular preferences when it is such a basic thing to do so myself. 

[Edax]

Just now, jonoslack said:

They were certainly shot with Daylight WB setting which always yeilds 5,200 with +22 using Adobe Standard (and yes I'm using 13.3 Lightroom classic). Interesting that you get something different! (I have thousands of images with that basic setting). 

Something to figure out for me...

[jonoslack]

7 minutes ago, don daniel said:

Sorry, but that's exactly what bothers me the most. You show a noticeable magenta cast in this picture. I understand now why you prefer the M11 over all other cameras when it comes to white balance. You must also be dissatisfied with what all other Leica models and other camera brands offer. Because none of them color like the M11.

I'm not dissatisfied with the colour in all other Leica models (some I'm not so keen on). I particularly like skies and skin tones on the M11, and I picked this shot because I feel the sky is actually sky coloured (not cyan like almost all other cameras including the Q3)

[M11 for me]

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

Whilst conceding that appreciation of colour is subjective and individual, I really wonder why some people are still on a standard profile for the M11. I have most of my cameras profiled and tweaked to my taste ( except the M9 and SL601). I would not dream of demanding that a camera maker adapt his settings to my particular preferences when it is such a basic thing to do so myself. 

Absolutely. I have posted that many times here and elsewhere. My different cameras (Leica and others) give me all a very similar color rendering out of camera just during import into Lightroom Classic. This is due to my special import profiles. And that's it then. But however one might see it that is a never ending discussion I presume.

Jono presents wonderful colours of the sky (my opinion) and for Don these colours are just the proof for the mangenta cast . . . 🫠. And whenever Don shows one of his images I think that they are much too green. Where does this bring us???

Edited May 30, 2024 by M11 for me

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, M11 for me said:

.

Jono presents wonderful colours of the sky (my opinion) and for Don these colours are just the proof for the mangenta cast . . . 🫠. And whenever Don shows one of his images I think that they are much too green. Where does this bring us???

Well said! I hope that what it means is that great colour is subjective and there are a lot of different right (and wrong) answers, but probably not a definitive one. 

 

[jaapv]

Where? Different strokes for different folks. I prefer the less strident voices, though. 
Sidenote: I prefer Jono’s colours as well

[jaapv]

Colour perception has a strong cultural component as well. The difference between slide films - Kodak reddish, Fuji bluish, Agfa green-brownish - reflected the colour perceptions in the various countries. 

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Colour perception has a strong cultural component as well. The difference between slide films - Kodak reddish, Fuji bluish, Agfa green-brownish - reflected the colour perceptions in the various countries. 

If only we could have an in-camera option to tweak the base color aesthetic using some sort of new and innovative menu. I don't want a Fujjifilm-type "film style", I want to be able to change how the color data is being interpreted and written to the DNG. That would be something truly innovative Leica could do, which would be to trump Fujifilm's JPEG-based styles and allow for color styles to happen at the sensor level, with the results getting written to both DNG and JPEG.

[jaapv]

Well, Leica has access to the technology. My LUMIX cameras have three screens of WB settings, some user-adjustable. 
And a number of other raw output controls , all on a quick access menu  

TBH I only use the three AWBs, Sun, Cloud and Shadow  My camera profile in ACR is a dual illuminant based on Sun and Shadow  

 

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[harmen]

Just wondering… how many of us have glasses that have a blue filter?  And would that have an impact?  Opticians around here need to be told specifically not to spec 😎 it or else they take it as default.

[don daniel]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb M11 for me:

Jono presents wonderful colours of the sky (my opinion) and for Don these colours are just the proof for the mangenta cast . . . 🫠. And whenever Don shows one of his images I think that they are much too green. Where does this bring us???

Hopefully, this will bring us to a customizable white balance setting in the camera menu!

[LocalHero1953]

The ancient Greeks had very few words for colours, and those they had perhaps were used for textures rather than what we call colours: other than black and white, they used 'wine-dark' (the sea, oxen), 'green' (khloros: faces, honey, wood) and 'bronze' (the sky, as well as metallics). They had no word for 'blue': kyanos (our 'cyan') was only used by Homer to describe Zeus's eyebrows. It appears they weren't colour blind, but perhaps colour was not as sophisticated or necessary - or rigid - a concept as it is to us, after a couple of millennia exploiting a multitude of natural and artificial pigments.

Just adding to the debate.........🙂

[jaapv]

6 hours ago, harmen said:

Just wondering… how many of us have glasses that have a blue filter?  And would that have an impact?  Opticians around here need to be told specifically not to spec 😎 it or else they take it as default.

An interesting remark, as our eyes and vision system have a colour memory. The well-known experiment: stare at a blue patch for a while and you will have a yellow blotch in your vision when you look away. This is the reason why you must take a coffee break before you finally save an image that you have been processing. -Seriously. 

[Photoworks]

10 hours ago, jaapv said:

Well, Leica has access to the technology. My LUMIX cameras have three screens of WB settings, some user-adjustable. 
And a number of other raw output controls , all on a quick access menu  

TBH I only use the three AWBs, Sun, Cloud and Shadow  My camera profile in ACR is a dual illuminant based on Sun and Shadow  

 

 

 

 

For me, AWB works most of the time, and the rest in post. in any case, I don't give the chance to any company to what the final look should be, it all get into processing.

Probably the biggest color influence in the photos is going to be my mood!.

But you bring out a good point AWB warm would be my preset. Or if there are settings to apply to all the WB I use, just set to +200K

[hdmesa]

12 hours ago, jaapv said:

Well, Leica has access to the technology. My LUMIX cameras have three screens of WB settings, some user-adjustable. 
And a number of other raw output controls , all on a quick access menu  

TBH I only use the three AWBs, Sun, Cloud and Shadow  My camera profile in ACR is a dual illuminant based on Sun and Shadow  

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Traditional warmth + tint balance shift tools would be welcome as would a new interface style that gives us color sliders like we have in Lightroom as an alternative.

[lct]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

For me, AWB works most of the time, and the rest in post. in any case, I don't give the chance to any company to what the final look should be, it all get into processing [...]

+1

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[costa43]

Although I’m still with the m10r/sl2s. My workflow for all my previous cameras has always been the same. AWB for pics too. As a hobbyist I get a handful of keeper pics a week if I’m lucky. It’s easy (and enjoyable for me) to edit these slowly and play around with the colour to taste. I delete the rest. If I was an event photographer I would consider setting a daylight or close to WB.

SOOC colour is not a thing for me as I always edit the files to taste, it takes me a few weeks to get to know a new sensor. It’s part of the upgrade process. 
 

edit: soft spot for m8 😁

Edited May 31, 2024 by costa43