Did the May 2024 firmware update 2.1.1. solve your M11 freezing problems?

[sebas_]

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

Interesting. Many if not most of us that shoot IN=SD only use the SD and never even look at the IN files. I have to ask, is it possible the file you copied off the IN is corrupt but the actual file on IN is not?

The file on IN is corrupted, not possible to show in camera and cannot be imported into LR. 
When I switch the camera to display the content of the SD card, the file with the same number is fine and I can import the files without any issues (using an SD card reader) 

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[lct]

Does it happen when the SSD is freshly formatted?

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, sebas_ said:

The file on IN is corrupted, not possible to show in camera and cannot be imported into LR. 
When I switch the camera to display the content of the SD card, the file with the same number is fine and I can import the files without any issues (using an SD card reader) 

Very unusual. I think most using IN=SD are never looking at IN unless it's needed in an emergency. I'll start checking them.

To further what @lct mentioned, do you regularly format the internal memory every time you format the SD? And do you do that each time you put the SD back in the camera after offloading your files? 

[lct]

14 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

How do you completely turn off lens detection when the camera has a passive lens detection on all the time?

By setting lens detection to Off and using uncoded lenses.

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, lct said:

By setting lens detection to Off and using uncoded lenses.

We've all been round and round about this in another thread already. Some of us have a different definition of what "off" should be. You can switch the setting to "off", but every time you turn on the camera, it still activates the 6-bit code reader momentarily to see if a 6-bit coded lens has been attached. If it finds none, yes, it is then goes back to what I call a temporary off state. But many of us would prefer when we set it to "off", it would not perform this check on startup.

[hjddd]

48 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

我们已经在另一个帖子中反复讨论过这个问题了。我们中的一些人对“关闭”的定义不同。您可以将设置切换为“关闭”，但每次打开相机时，它仍会暂时激活 6 位代码读取器以查看是否已安装 6 位编码镜头。如果它找不到，是的，然后它就会回到我所说的临时关闭状态。但我们中的许多人更希望当我们将其设置为“关闭”时，它不会在启动时执行此检查。

thats right， M11 can not turn off the Len detection TOTALLY 

[hmzimelka]

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6 hours ago, lct said:

By setting lens detection to Off and using uncoded lenses.

You obviously don't understand what I wrote. Neither did you watch the video which I made for you a while ago proving the same point. But you also didn't understand it back then either. Lens detection is NEVER REALLY OFF! 
 

Edited July 6, 2024 by hmzimelka

[lct]

Theory and practice. Lens detection is off and stays so as long as one uses uncoded lenses on the camera. Each time you put the same uncoded lens or another one on it, it starts and remains constantly in Off position. It is the way my M11 works at least.

[hmzimelka]

39 minutes ago, lct said:

Theory and practice. Lens detection is off and stays so as long as one uses uncoded lenses on the camera. Each time you put the same uncoded lens or another one on it, it starts and remains constantly in Off position. It is the way my M11 works at least.

No. You need to watch the video again. Otherwise you're not observing the glaringly obvious. 

And the theory is what I put into practice with the video. 

Edited July 6, 2024 by hmzimelka

[lct]

I don't remember your video sorry. I prefer my "glaringly obvious" facts 😉 if you don't mind. Let's take a simple example. I have 3 lenses in front of me. A Summilux 35/1.4 v2, a Tele-Elmar 135/4 and an Hexanon 50/2. None is 6-bit coded for various reasons. I put the Summilux on the camera, lets detection being set to Off. This way the camera ignores which lens is mounted i guess, fact is the perspective control funtion is disabled this way. I take a couple of photos with this combo. Each photo will show no lens mentioned in the exif data, as expected, since lens detection is off. Now i remove the Summilux and i mount the Tele-Elmar instead. Another uncoded lens. Lens detection is still set to Off and remains off as expected. I take another set of photos with the new combo and will see no change whatsoever in their exif data. Quite normal since lens detection is off. Now i remove the Tele-Elmar, i put the Hexanon instead and the exact same experience repeats as expected. During all this time, lens detection was set to off and remained so w/o interruption.

 

[sebas_]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb lct:

Does it happen when the SSD is freshly formatted?

Yes both SD and internal was freshly formatted in camera. Guess have to try once more if I can see any pattern. 

[hmzimelka]

1 hour ago, lct said:

I don't remember your video sorry. I prefer my "glaringly obvious" facts 😉 if you don't mind. Let's take a simple example. I have 3 lenses in front of me. A Summilux 35/1.4 v2, a Tele-Elmar 135/4 and an Hexanon 50/2. None is 6-bit coded for various reasons. I put the Summilux on the camera, lets detection being set to Off. This way the camera ignores which lens is mounted i guess, fact is the perspective control funtion is disabled this way. I take a couple of photos with this combo. Each photo will show no lens mentioned in the exif data, as expected, since lens detection is off. Now i remove the Summilux and i mount the Tele-Elmar instead. Another uncoded lens. Lens detection is still set to Off and remains off as expected. I take another set of photos with the new combo and will see no change whatsoever in their exif data. Quite normal since lens detection is off. Now i remove the Tele-Elmar, i put the Hexanon instead and the exact same experience repeats as expected. During all this time, lens detection was set to off and remained so w/o interruption.

 

 

I'm a bit dumbfounded by your logic and stubbornness. 
You're creating an example where the camera cannot detect a 6 bit code because non of your lenses in your "test" are 6 bit coded, and therefore you don't rule out that the camera is always looking for a 6 bit code. In terms of evidence based diagnosing of the problem or condition, your test doesn't rule out the fact that the sensor is always on looking for a code because you simply don't put on a coded lens.  Of course the camera is going to say Lens detection is Off if you never present it with a coded lens!!! 

So much for evidence and proof.

[lct]

Strange tone. I'm just proving what i said above and can just repeat to avoid misunderstandings. Lens detection is off and stays so as long as one uses uncoded lenses on the camera. Each time you put the same uncoded lens or another one on it, it starts and remains constantly in Off position. It is the way my M11 works at least.

Edited July 6, 2024 by lct

[ianforber]

2 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

I'm a bit dumbfounded by your logic and stubbornness. 
You're creating an example where the camera cannot detect a 6 bit code because non of your lenses in your "test" are 6 bit coded, and therefore you don't rule out that the camera is always looking for a 6 bit code. In terms of evidence based diagnosing of the problem or condition, your test doesn't rule out the fact that the sensor is always on looking for a code because you simply don't put on a coded lens.  Of course the camera is going to say Lens detection is Off if you never present it with a coded lens!!! 

So much for evidence and proof.

I agree with you that the detection can never really be fully off but do you think that the camera goes through a subtly different start-up if the menu is set to “Off”, even if it really isn’t? I admit to knowing nothing about software or firmware so have no idea what I’m talking about!

[Rollei35]

Every once a while I came back to this kind of thread, and commented: I told you guys, do not upgrade the firmware.

——— a happy non-frozen M11 with FW 1.6.2 owner 

[JTLeica]

2 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

I'm a bit dumbfounded by your logic and stubbornness. 
You're creating an example where the camera cannot detect a 6 bit code because non of your lenses in your "test" are 6 bit coded, and therefore you don't rule out that the camera is always looking for a 6 bit code. In terms of evidence based diagnosing of the problem or condition, your test doesn't rule out the fact that the sensor is always on looking for a code because you simply don't put on a coded lens.  Of course the camera is going to say Lens detection is Off if you never present it with a coded lens!!! 

So much for evidence and proof.

 

1 hour ago, lct said:

Strange tone. I'm just proving what i said above and can just repeat to avoid misunderstandings. Lens detection is off and stays so as long as one uses uncoded lenses on the camera. Each time you put the same uncoded lens or another one on it, it starts and remains constantly in Off position. It is the way my M11 works at least.

So one of you is saying that it can be turned off and only detects a 6 Bit lens when it sees one, while remaining always off when it sees (or doest see) an uncoded lens.

The other is saying that it cannot be turned off as it is always essentially in standby (on) mode, as when it is in the off setting it still detects 6 bit lenses.

Funny as whoever is right, changes nothing about the functionality of the camera.

So, if the camera actually allowed you to turn off lens detection, then it would never be able to detect a 6 Bit lens as it is off meaning the sensor detecting the lens is off, so I guess by definition it cannot ever be truly off if it detects a lens no matter the setting.

But, who cares 🤣

[hmzimelka]

2 hours ago, ianforber said:

I agree with you that the detection can never really be fully off but do you think that the camera goes through a subtly different start-up if the menu is set to “Off”, even if it really isn’t? I admit to knowing nothing about software or firmware so have no idea what I’m talking about!

I really don't know how the camera behaves on boot with this setting. It would be nice if Off means Off, but in this case it doesn't. To me there seems to be a reoccurring pattern with lens detection and misbehaving cameras, but so far most if not all M11 issues don't seem to make much sense as to why or how they occur. Recently with the latest update user are experiencing issues that feel like they were dealt with older updates; images with incorrect orientation, or random over exposure, etc.

I have experienced random but rare incorrectly oriented DNG files which were fixed in firmware a long time ago... just to have some random and completely unrepeatable occurrence of the worst spout of incorrect oriented images under firmware 2.0.2 where almost every image was off by 90º or 180º in orientation. One shoot, and never again in the almost 6 months of using the firmware 2.0.2. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Non of these issues make sense and they are hard or impossible to recreate across multiple cameras. 

 

[hmzimelka]

2 hours ago, JTLeica said:

 

So one of you is saying that it can be turned off and only detects a 6 Bit lens when it sees one, while remaining always off when it sees (or doest see) an uncoded lens.

The other is saying that it cannot be turned off as it is always essentially in standby (on) mode, as when it is in the off setting it still detects 6 bit lenses.

Funny as whoever is right, changes nothing about the functionality of the camera.

So, if the camera actually allowed you to turn off lens detection, then it would never be able to detect a 6 Bit lens as it is off meaning the sensor detecting the lens is off, so I guess by definition it cannot ever be truly off if it detects a lens no matter the setting.

But, who cares 🤣

Because if lens detection can cause the camera to hiccup, then turning it off could actually help. LCT claims that turning it off helps to prevent freezing. I stated its perpetually on whether the setting is Off or not.

Now I've just taken my camera and recorded it with my security camera which has IR night vision. With my M11 without lens, shows blinking IR lights from the 6 Bit code window. Lens detection is set to OFF. Perhaps someone with better hardware can repeat this in better quality. 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2024 by hmzimelka

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[hdmesa]

4 hours ago, lct said:

Strange tone. I'm just proving what i said above and can just repeat to avoid misunderstandings. Lens detection is off and stays so as long as one uses uncoded lenses on the camera. Each time you put the same uncoded lens or another one on it, it starts and remains constantly in Off position. It is the way my M11 works at least.

So what happens when you have lens detection set to off but you attach a 6-bit coded lens? It automatically activates lens detection. How does that happen if lens detection is off?

––> My point is that it would be nice to have a second "off" option that did not automatically activate lens detection when attaching a 6-bit coded lens after having used a non-coded lens with lens detection set to off.

Is that fair?

[hdmesa]

To put it another way:

@lct's and Leica's definition of "off" is that the menu setting does not change from "off" as long as you only use uncoded lenses (however the 6-bit code reader still is working and waiting in case a 6-bit code lens is ever attached).

I and @hmzimelka's definition would be an "off" setting that turns off the 6-bit code reader (6-bit code reader would remain off and attaching a 6-bit coded lens would change nothing).

The reason I would prefer the "true" off setting is because it would bypass firmware and/or hardware issues related to the 6-bit code reader – AND because I prefer to use 6-bit coded lenses as if they were uncoded.

Edited July 6, 2024 by hdmesa