How widespread is the ‘FREEZE’ problem!?

[lct]

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23 minutes ago, Malabito said:

[...] If you think that's ignorance, perhaps you've done the same and just want to excuse yourself behind ignorance as well.

I prefer ignoring this myself.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[rxj]

Bought my M11 in September 2022 (Version EU/US/CN). Zero lockups. I don't do high speed shooting, mainly street photography and shots of still objects.

Now at about 6200+ images and still going strong.

Using a Sandisk Extreme Pro 300MB/s SD Card.

[Malabito]

43 minutes ago, rxj said:

Bought my M11 in September 2022 (Version EU/US/CN). Zero lockups. I don't do high speed shooting, mainly street photography and shots of still objects.

Now at about 6200+ images and still going strong.

Using a Sandisk Extreme Pro 300MB/s SD Card.

That sounds promising! 

I got mine three weeks ago. I used it during an event last weekend and shot over 1k images without any issues. I hope it remains that way. I don't want to jinx it. Weather was mild, so heating was not really a possibility.

I used a Kingston Canvas React Pro card (300 MB/s speed), shooting RAW to the memory card and JPEG to the internal drive. I mostly used single shot mode, but occasionally used continuous high mode. Camera behave great during the event.

Firmware version is the latest one.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2024 by Malabito

[M11 for me]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb letitz:

For the price you should expect 0. 

Answers the question about how widespread the issue is. 

 

😂 😆 😂 

 

Sounds like a perfectly working M11. 

I wonder what your goal is. We know that there is that freezing problem. You are certainly aware that all the satified users do not post here or just a few do. Therefore you get a wrong picture of the real situation in such a thread. And you do not make things better with the kind of posts as the one above. That is just fooling around. I have an M11 that I got 2 weeks after its launch and I had just 1 or 2 freezing situations. In your post above you pretend there should be zero ("for the prize" you write). But imagine that my Canon R5 makes freezes as well from times to times. Normally I just continue working with the camera after fixing the problem. And thats it then. So no much need for such posts. I presume that you even do not own an M11 . . .

[M11 for me]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb letitz:

Most users I believe are like you. Battery pull outs are just the normal thing. Sad.

Did you get my point? The hughe Canon company with its R5 freezes as well as I tried to explain to you. That does not mean that Leica has yet a job to do. 
 

And as a non M11 shooter you do not have the problem anyway. Nonetheless thanks for your research.

[mattcheol]

16 hours ago, Malabito said:

Hahah, ignorance? Not disclosing the main reason for which he was getting rid of the camera?

Sorry, but that's straight-through dishonesty and lying. If you think that's ignorance, perhaps you've done the same and just want to excuse yourself behind ignorance as well.

You can't compare this to finding an old note lying around. An appropriate comparison would be finding a wallet with the owner's ID, phone number, and using their credit cards.

I'm going to reply once and only once, as I feel is fair considering I feel that my personal integrity is being questioned. 

Please just read my previous post. But what is the honest truth is that, yes now in hindsight it is clear to me that I should have disclosed why I was selling the camera. And I now regret not doing so as I do agree that this was unfair, and a real obvious misstep that I regret making. But TRULY It never even occurred to me at the time because I felt that my camera was like countless others with bad firmware that needed to be fixed and I didn't feel that I was selling a "lemon" but a camera not dissimilar to what Leica themselves are currently selling to new buyers even now. All outwardly showing flaws were fully and honestly disclosed in my description. 

So I agree with and appreciate those who brought up that this was a case of ignorance and not blatant dishonesty. 

But believe what you will.

Happy shooting to all. 

[Smogg]

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The problem is not that M11 cameras freeze and corrupt files (this can happen with every manufacturer). The problem is that more than 2 years have passed since the camera was released, the problem has still not been resolved and the problem is kept silent by the manufacturer.
 

Where are the urgent fixes???

(coming soon😂 4(!) months ago)

 

Where is the opportunity to roll back to the previous firmware for those for whom this firmware worked better???

[Smogg]

1 hour ago, M11 for me said:

I wonder what your goal is. We know that there is that freezing problem. You are certainly aware that all the satified users do not post here or just a few do. Therefore you get a wrong picture of the real situation in such a thread. And you do not make things better with the kind of posts as the one above. That is just fooling around. I have an M11 that I got 2 weeks after its launch and I had just 1 or 2 freezing situations. In your post above you pretend there should be zero ("for the prize" you write). But imagine that my Canon R5 makes freezes as well from times to times. Normally I just continue working with the camera after fixing the problem. And thats it then. So no much need for such posts. I presume that you even do not own an M11 . . .

Our messages are an attempt to draw attention to the problem. We are outraged by Leica's ignorance. What else should we do to make the information public and the manufacturer becomes concerned about its reputation? Maybe make a YouTube video of a bugged M11 being smashed with a hammer? Then it will definitely spread across all news channels and stop sales.

[DadDadDaddyo]

The M11 manual specifically mentions user behaviors that can result in freezes. These warnings are in the same section warning against other things (like moisture, physical shocks, or which type of SD card to use, or what have you), that such things can cause malfunctions if not used as directed.  

This stuff is in the warnings section precisely because people can influence the warned-about behavior through their *actions*. Do this and it may cause this. Do that and it may cause that. Don't folks read that section in the manual?

My automobile manual warns that I should depress the clutch before shifting. Not doing so can result, at the least, in a grinding of the gears, and at the worst, in the need for clutch or transmission repair. 

But. This is not the result of a flaw in design nor an error in manufacturing.

It's about *Used as directed*, see? It means something.

Every camera manual I've ever seen since digital (and that's a bunch) has such a section. And as I've mentioned more times that I can count, every digital camera make & model you type into Google, followed by a word such as "freezes", or "brick", or similar, gets immediate hits from aggrieved users bemoaning these terrible malfunctioning cameras and their own shattered expectations. 

But *why* doesn't it happen to everyone as often as it happens to these unfortunate souls? How is it possible that some folks can be on their second or third replacement body and the problem is *still* there?

It's curious, isn't it?

Check the manual again. It's in there. Really.

Edited March 31, 2024 by DadDadDaddyo
Typo

[charlesphoto99]

7 hours ago, Smogg said:

 

Where are the urgent fixes???

(coming soon😂 4(!) months ago)

 

Where is the opportunity to roll back to the previous firmware for those for whom this firmware worked better???

The only urgency coming from Leica is to release yet more iterations before the model cycle runs out. And Leica buyers (those who always must have the 'latest greatest') will just keep lapping it up...

[Smogg]

21 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

The M11 manual specifically mentions user behaviors that can result in freezes. These warnings are in the same section warning against other things (like moisture, physical shocks, or which type of SD card to use, or what have you), that such things can cause malfunctions if not used as directed.  

This stuff is in the warnings section precisely because people can influence the warned-about behavior through their *actions*. Do this and it may cause this. Do that and it may cause that. Don't folks read that section in the manual?

My automobile manual warns that I should depress the clutch before shifting. Not doing so can result, at the least, in a grinding of the gears, and at the worst, in the need for clutch or transmission repair. 

But. This is not the result of a flaw in design nor an error in manufacturing.

It's about *Used as directed*, see? It means something.

Every camera manual I've ever seen since digital (and that's a bunch) has such a section. And as I've mentioned more times that I can count, every digital camera make & model you type into Google, followed by a word such as "freezes", or "brick", or similar, gets immediate hits from aggrieved users bemoaning these terrible malfunctioning cameras and their own shattered expectations. 

But *why* doesn't it happen to everyone as often as it happens to these unfortunate souls? How is it possible that some folks can be on their second or third replacement body and the problem is *still* there?

It's curious, isn't it?

Check the manual again. It's in there. Really.

Would you mind pointing out the manual page where it says that using high speed, which is where I get most of the freezes, is not normal behavior on the part of the user? Or point out the place in the manual where it is written that this is a forbidden feature of the camera, and not one of the basic characteristics that describes the capabilities of every modern camera?

[lct]

2 hours ago, Smogg said:

[...] Would you mind pointing out the manual page where it says that using high speed, which is where I get most of the freezes, is not normal behavior on the part of the user? [...]

I have never seen that kind of page anywhere but an M camera is not the same as an SL camera. For extensive use in burst mode i'd rather use the latter or another similar camera. Not to say that the M11 cannot work in burst mode, mine does it flawlessly but i use it this way from time to time only. For more extensive use in burst mode, i take my Sony A7r2 preferably, the same way as i used to do with Canon and Nikon bodies in the film days. YMMV.

Edited March 31, 2024 by lct

[Smogg]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

I have never seen that kind of page anywhere but an M camera is not the same as an SL camera. For extensive use in burst mode i'd rather use the latter or another similar camera. Not to say that the M11 cannot work in burst mode, mine do it flawlessly but i use it this way from time to time only. For more extensive use in burst mode, i take my Sony A7r2 preferably, the same way as i used to do with Canon and Nikon bodies in the film days. YMMV.

I do street photography and it's essential for me to use an M series camera to use zone focus and see a live image rather than an electronic image through the viewfinder. And I need 3+ frames per second so that during subsequent selection on the computer I can select pictures with the correct phase of the legs and arms. 
I don't require 10fps like for sports photography. In my opinion, 3+fps is a very moderate requirement for a modern camera

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Smogg said:

[...] In my opinion, 3+fps is a very moderate requirement for a modern camera

I cannot be the judge but if you're using your camera reasonably, i would not keep it personally.

[Smogg]

9 minutes ago, lct said:

I cannot be the judge but if you're using your camera reasonably, i would not keep it personally.

Everything has worked great with previous M cameras since the M9 and I have always been happy and rarely seen on this forum. I've only had problems with the M11 and I'm still holding out hope that Leica won't abandon its customers.

[elmars]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Smogg:

Our messages are an attempt to draw attention to the problem. We are outraged by Leica's ignorance

Leica neglected the problem for too long. Now things have changed. We no longer need to exert pressure or generate attention, but rather describe our observations or make assumptions about the causes.

[lct]

1 hour ago, Smogg said:

[...] I've only had problems with the M11 and I'm still holding out hope that Leica won't abandon its customers.

I guess Leica will react the same as they always did since i know them (50+ years) but some individual behaviours on this forum are not an incentive to do so if you asked me. Nothing personal.

[IkarusJohn]

So … what’s the answer?  How prevalent are the M11 issues?  And has the latest firmware solve the problems?  “Move on, nothing to see here”?

We’ll never know.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Derbyshire Man]

I'm not terrified, my M11-P does hang occasionally. That's not right and shouldn't be happening. I can live with it as long as a determination to fix it exists (I believe it does but wish to see more evidence of this). If it continues to be problematic I will seek redress via UK law which gives 6 years for expensive items. An £8k camera which as well documented fails to take photographs from time to time is going to be found in my favour (which I will publicise loudly if it gets to this point). Putting every effort into fixing this is reputationally vital for Leica.

[Derbyshire Man]

11 minutes ago, letitz said:

The problem is I suspect they can't fix the M11. You will continue to have issues. Will the M12 be a robust reliable camera? I don't know. Is the Leica M just a luxury item for rich doctors and lawyers? Has it become the cliché for real?

My M10R wants to know. 

Maybe in the UK there are laws to protect you but that's not the case everywhere. 

Good news is some people here believe that you're in a tiny minority of a mystery batch of bad Leica M11 cameras that somehow got through. Also anyone saying there is a problem has ulterior motives and is a villain because there is no there there and everything is fine. Nothing to see here. 

You just won the freeze lottery that's all.  👌 

And you're right. It shouldn't be happening at all. You should be able to take it out of the box, not do anything to it, no updates, nothing, just put a lens on it and use it FULLY. Every feature. And it should work perfectly fine in every condition (except under water of course). Because this is what I've experienced with the M10R the last 3 years. Still haven't updated it BTW. It is as it came out of the box. I just turned it on and used it. It's all scratched up and brassed and it has been half way around the world in every temperature from freezing to humid to hot as the sun itself and it just keeps shooting. Rangefinder is bang on with every lens I've tried. 

Why've you just turned up with a pitchfork? What's your motivation with all of this? 36 rabble rousing hysterical posts? Laden with emotion and conjecture. Appreciate the gaslighters are a problem but your approach strikes me as just as wrong in the opposite direction.