Leica SL3 problems

[LeicaR10]

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Beewee,  I am both amazed and disappointed as well it has taken 2+ years for the M11 issues to get hopefully addressed.  I had all three M11 variants and finally gave up and went back to the M10s.  Like you, the M10s and SL2(s) have been the most recent issue free cameras that I own.  I hope the very latest firmware update for M11 users who experience issues, resolves the many bugs.  The SL3 is a shocker considering the SL2(s) never lost files etc.  When someone buys a $9 K USD or $7 K USD camera, you expect it to work, not gather frequent flyer miles to/from Wetzlar.   r/ Mark

[beewee]

I’ve been keeping an eye on the SL3 as I really want to pick one up for a trip to the American Southwest in the fall. I can live with poor AF but losing photos is a complete deal breaker for me. I’m not going to take such a camera on a trip where photography is the objective, let alone buy one. On paper, the SL3 has a lot going for it and I would love the higher resolution that I get from the Q3 combined with the added flexibility of the sizeable L-mount lens collection that I’ve built up over the past couple years. At this point, if I had to buy a second body for such a trip tomorrow, it’d be a S5ii and not the SL3, even though I’ve never owned a Lumix body but at least I can use handheld high resolution mode on the S5ii and won’t lose photos.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I've now shot 11000 frames on my two SL3 bodies. I have not lost a single frame. Mikka has an issue, for sure but I'm not entirely convinced it's not that Sony card, which I've never trusted in anything except a Sony. If the Slash Gera report is correct that's something different to Mika and again a one off, who provided ZERO backup to their claim that they know of others with the issue. Likely they read Mika's thread here. The SL3 has issues. Losing images isn't one of them, if you remember to shut the camera down before removing the battery. And hopefully that'll be resolved as well. For me it's rock solid like my SL2 and SL's before that.

Mika's issues are real. But I was unable to reproduce them. Probably since I refuse to use Sony SD cards. (I use Sony CF-A cards in my A1 and A7R5). I have tried on several occasions and not been able to make my cameras play up. I'm not down-playing the issue. It should be fixed. But if you avoid Sony SD cards and always check the camera is OFF before removing the battery then you'll be fine.

The real issue for the SL3 is the unfinished firmware. Not only are some features from the SL2 MIA, the ones there are in beta or probably should be. The AFC still needs work. The home screen in the menu touts selectable options but there's only 11 options for 8 soft buttons and the extra 3 are all assigned to real buttons already. You can't modify the rear right click function. The new dial has limited options and weird auto /manual ISO switching. The EVF still has the lowered resolution thing in AFC the SL2 had. Startup times are erratic. There's no way of knowing if the camera is off or asleep (hence the battery popping issue). Let's not get sidetracked from the real issues the SL3 has to a single user problem that's a bug fix in firmware.

Still it's my favourite small format camera of all time and I'd not hesitate to take it out on a job. I've already had it on three continents and I'm building my main small format system on it going forward. I have faster cameras (A1) and same pixel count (A7R5, M11, Q3). I still think the SL3 is slightly ahead of those cameras, except the A1 which I'll use for specialised applications. As long as you're aware it's not a sports camera then you'll have a powerful and great to use imaging tool that has a few tricks, no other system can match. No small format system comes close for long exposures, perspective control or build quality.

So, after many, many frames I have zero concerns about the SL3 in the real world. But hey, feel free to go on and on about a single person's issue and let that stop you getting the SL3. It'll just move someone else up the wait que.

Gordon

[beewee]

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I've now shot 11000 frames on my two SL3 bodies. I have not lost a single frame. Mikka has an issue, for sure but I'm not entirely convinced it's not that Sony card, which I've never trusted in anything except a Sony. If the Slash Gera report is correct that's something different to Mika and again a one off, who provided ZERO backup to their claim that they know of others with the issue. Likely they read Mika's thread here. The SL3 has issues. Losing images isn't one of them, if you remember to shut the camera down before removing the battery. And hopefully that'll be resolved as well. For me it's rock solid like my SL2 and SL's before that.

Mika's issues are real. But I was unable to reproduce them. Probably since I refuse to use Sony SD cards. (I use Sony CF-A cards in my A1 and A7R5). I have tried on several occasions and not been able to make my cameras play up. I'm not down-playing the issue. It should be fixed. But if you avoid Sony SD cards and always check the camera is OFF before removing the battery then you'll be fine.

The real issue for the SL3 is the unfinished firmware. Not only are some features from the SL2 MIA, the ones there are in beta or probably should be. The AFC still needs work. The home screen in the menu touts selectable options but there's only 11 options for 8 soft buttons and the extra 3 are all assigned to real buttons already. You can't modify the rear right click function. The new dial has limited options and weird auto /manual ISO switching. The EVF still has the lowered resolution thing in AFC the SL2 had. Startup times are erratic. There's no way of knowing if the camera is off or asleep (hence the battery popping issue). Let's not get sidetracked from the real issues the SL3 has to a single user problem that's a bug fix in firmware.

Still it's my favourite small format camera of all time and I'd not hesitate to take it out on a job. I've already had it on three continents and I'm building my main small format system on it going forward. I have faster cameras (A1) and same pixel count (A7R5, M11, Q3). I still think the SL3 is slightly ahead of those cameras, except the A1 which I'll use for specialised applications. As long as you're aware it's not a sports camera then you'll have a powerful and great to use imaging tool that has a few tricks, no other system can match. No small format system comes close for long exposures, perspective control or build quality.

So, after many, many frames I have zero concerns about the SL3 in the real world. But hey, feel free to go on and on about a single person's issue and let that stop you getting the SL3. It'll just move someone else up the wait que.

Gordon

Are you using exclusively SD cards, CF Express Type-B, or both? What cards are you using?

My go-to for SD cards have been Kingston Canvas React Plus 256GB cards and they have been working reliably on all my Leica bodies.

I bought an OWC Atlas Ultra 2TB CF Express Type B card in anticipation for the SL3.

My reading of the Slashgear review was that the reviewer did experience loss of images and she was using a single CF Express Type B card as shown in one of the photos in the review. Personally, I don’t see why there would be any incentive for reviewers to pick up problems from a forum and write it like they experienced it themselves. It would lose its journalistic integrity. Also, most reviewers have every incentive to post positive things about a product because they often make money through affiliate links and if they were to bash a product without good reason behind it, soon enough they will find themselves in a position where no company will reach out to them with products to review.

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Edited May 26, 2024 by beewee

[Mikko Kankainen]

Some points. 
 

1. This happened once, after that no problem. 
2. There are like 5 different cases in this forum. One lost photos from a wedding. 
3. I used 2 cards. Other was not Sony. 

Like Gordon said, SL3 feels like beta FW camera but he and most of users never have lost any image. 
If it’s related to some card brand, Leica should say it and warn customers not to use some card. 
 

I have taken about 15 000 photos after that case when I lost photos. I use battery grip and always shutdown camera before taking card out. For me this has worked. 

[Photoworks]

I had a long talk with customer service and they took notes of everything and looking into it.

reporting missing photos has been a handful of people, but when the camera came out Leica was selling Sandisk cards and a few had issues with that the seams resolved with another CF express card.

the issue is hard to reproduce, and not sure if it is associated with a specific CF express card. Some claim good speeds and others are fast for a few seconds and then they drop to 200MB/s

I am looking forward to firmware that adds stability to the camera. I like the camera but I have found it sluggish at times. but like most manufacturers improvements come later, some are faster than others.

To me the SL2 is very stable and still a valid option for high-res capture. Unless you have to underexpose drastically you probably will not find much difference in image quality from the SL3.

[Photoworks]

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22 hours ago, beewee said:

buy a second body for such a trip tomorrow, it’d be a S5ii

it is a good camera, but it is not the same experience. and all the multishot modes are done with electronic shutters and can not be used in many situations.

Panasonic is a really good alternative for video over Leica.

[Stuart Richardson]

23 hours ago, beewee said:

I’ve been keeping an eye on the SL3 as I really want to pick one up for a trip to the American Southwest in the fall. I can live with poor AF but losing photos is a complete deal breaker for me. I’m not going to take such a camera on a trip where photography is the objective, let alone buy one. On paper, the SL3 has a lot going for it and I would love the higher resolution that I get from the Q3 combined with the added flexibility of the sizeable L-mount lens collection that I’ve built up over the past couple years. At this point, if I had to buy a second body for such a trip tomorrow, it’d be a S5ii and not the SL3, even though I’ve never owned a Lumix body but at least I can use handheld high resolution mode on the S5ii and won’t lose photos.

The SL2 is half the price or less than the SL3, is only slightly lower resolution on single capture, and offers multishot, which the SL3 does not, and maintains complete compatibility with everything from the SL3. It has been rock solid for me over four years of professional use. No lost images, no freezes that I can recall. Never had to send it in or do anything with it or any of the L mount lenses. Just one lens hood had a bit of plastic separate. I have not had any Leica system as reliable in 24 years of shooting with them.

With most of the lenses available for it, it will be similar or higher total system resolution than the Q3 because the lenses are sharper (especially the apo summicrons). AF is fine with AFs, not great for AFc. ISO is fine up until about 3200, depending on how picky you are. The S5ii is a perfectly good camera (and better for video, most likley), but if you want to stay in sync with the Q3 while avoiding/waiting on the SL3, the SL2 is still a superb choice. Frankly, it is still my preferred choice over the SL3.

Edited May 26, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[beewee]

44 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

The SL2 is half the price or less than the SL3, is only slightly lower resolution on single capture, and offers multishot, which the SL3 does not, and maintains complete compatibility with everything from the SL3. It has been rock solid for me over four years of professional use. No lost images, no freezes that I can recall. Never had to send it in or do anything with it or any of the L mount lenses. Just one lens hood had a bit of plastic separate. I have not had any Leica system as reliable in 24 years of shooting with them.

With most of the lenses available for it, it will be similar or higher total system resolution than the Q3 because the lenses are sharper (especially the apo summicrons). AF is fine with AFs, not great for AFc. ISO is fine up until about 3200, depending on how picky you are. The S5ii is a perfectly good camera (and better for video, most likley), but if you want to stay in sync with the Q3 while avoiding/waiting on the SL3, the SL2 is still a superb choice. Frankly, it is still my preferred choice over the SL3.

I agree that if resolution, reliability, and consistency of operation with other cameras are the main goal, then the SL2 is a great choice.

For myself, I primarily just shoot with 1 camera at a time unless I’m shooting close to my car or on a boat where it’s minimal effort to have multiple cameras. So the appeal for me of the SL3 is a one-camera-does-everything solution, at least on paper. In my mind, the SL3 offers the higher resolution like the SL2 while also having nearly as good low-light performance of the SL2-S.

Regarding high resolution mode, unless it’s handheld high resolution which is what is now available on the S5ii, it’s not all that useful for me because I almost never shoot on a tripod. 

On the ergonomics front, I can see myself probably getting frustrated with having to learn the interface of the S5ii which is why, as inviting as it is, I haven’t picked one up. I’m still hopeful that Leica will make the SL3 improvements a priority but with them also developing a whole new MF system to replace the S-system, I’m not sure how much bandwidth they have. It’s probably partly to blame for the slow-as-molasses fixes on the M11 platform.

Edited May 26, 2024 by beewee

[Photoworks]

22 hours ago, beewee said:

My reading of the Slashgear review was that the reviewer did experience loss of images and she was using a single CF Express Type B card as shown in one of the photos in the review. Personally, I don’t see why there would be any incentive for reviewers to pick up problems from a forum and write it like they experienced it themselves. It would lose its journalistic integrity. Also, most reviewers have every incentive to post positive things about a product because they often make money through affiliate links and if they were to bash a product without good reason behind it, soon enough they will find themselves in a position where no company will reach out to them with products to review.

what does it say about the company and the reviewer if they send only products to people who will be positive and follow the press info.,and what does it say about the reviewer if you don't have any integrity to bring correct info to an audience?

To me, I like to hear the info and judge for myself if it is valid. I would not trust too many tubes if the information between them is all the same.

The missing image factor is extremely rare and should be investigated, but we don't know if it is a Card combination or something else.

[jaapv]

Welcome to the real world of reviewers and influencers. Of course these are just marketing channels   The trick is to find objective reviewers. 

[Ken Abrahams]

There SL 3 is a disappointing camera for my train photography, Admittedly I was very close to the train with a 28 mm lens but I have also captured the rolling shutter phenomena with a bicycles passing and street shots of people are also deformed.   

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[beewee]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

what does it say about the company and the reviewer if they send only products to people who will be positive and follow the press info.,and what does it say about the reviewer if you don't have any integrity to bring correct info to an audience?

Funny you ask. Gerald Undone just coincidentally posted a pretty interesting video on this. It seems for some companies (*ahem* Panasonic), the more critical reviewers, perceived or otherwise, get excluded in future press events.

 

Edited May 27, 2024 by beewee

[beewee]

2 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

There SL 3 is a disappointing camera for my train photography, Admittedly I was very close to the train with a 28 mm lens but I have also captured the rolling shutter phenomena with a bicycles passing and street shots of people are also deformed.   

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This is kind of expected because it’s the same base sensor as what’s used in Sony A7R iv/v which was known to have absolutely terrible rolling shutter.

[kkcsm]

3 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

There SL 3 is a disappointing camera for my train photography, Admittedly I was very close to the train with a 28 mm lens but I have also captured the rolling shutter phenomena with a bicycles passing and street shots of people are also deformed.

This is a feature of the SL3.  It is showing the world how to make a locomotive more aerodynamic!

[FlashGordonPhotography]

5 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

There SL 3 is a disappointing camera for my train photography, Admittedly I was very close to the train with a 28 mm lens but I have also captured the rolling shutter phenomena with a bicycles passing and street shots of people are also deformed.   

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Why are you using electronic shutter here?

The readout speed of this sensor base is a well-known quantity. If ES is important, you bought the wrong camera.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 5/26/2024 at 10:06 AM, beewee said:

Are you using exclusively SD cards, CF Express Type-B, or both? What cards are you using?

 

All those combinations but mostly both. Currently one of my SL3's has Lexar cards (both slots) and the other has a ProGrade CFE(B) and Sandisk SD card. I have also used Sandisk CFE cards. I quite like the Lexar cards. Better value than Sandisk and fast. Never had a problem with them in any camera.

I avoid Sony cards. Except in my Sony cameras where I use a pair of CFE(a) cards for my A1 and A7R5. Not had great luck with Sony SD cards over the years.

Gordon

[Stuart Richardson]

17 hours ago, beewee said:

Regarding high resolution mode, unless it’s handheld high resolution which is what is now available on the S5ii, it’s not all that useful for me because I almost never shoot on a tripod. 

 

I would see if you could give this a try before you rely on it. In my experience multishot can give a boost over normal resolution (certainly it gives you more pixels), but it is not as good as native resolution. It also relies on you being absolutely still. The more movement the more artifacts. I am sure they would not offer it if it was completely terrible, but I would not be totally convinced that it is a replacement for, for example, a 47 or 60mp sensor. And of course as soon as anything is moving in the scene it is not as useful either. I find it helpful here, but I live in a country with mostly rocks.

[BernardC]

12 hours ago, beewee said:

Funny you ask. Gerald Undone just coincidentally posted a pretty interesting video on this. It seems for some companies (*ahem* Panasonic), the more critical reviewers, perceived or otherwise, get excluded in future press events.

Did he not get invited to Panasonic's latest launch? It seems off-key that he is complaining now about the gravy train that he's been riding for years. Or maybe it's just part of growing up. We all get there eventually.

I've only watched a few videos from that Panasonic event: Kai and Lok (each had one, but they appear in each-other's videos), and MicroFourNerd who is a really good photographer that happens to review old and new gear. Maybe I missed the cynical positive reviews, because those three did not pull punches.

I wouldn't single-out Panasonic. They are one of the few brands still paying for airfare. The same thing happens in most industries (the car industry being the worst offender), and things were even worse in the magazine age. Back then, a bad review could mean losing a significant part of your revenue for the year, so you would never read anything bad about a new product from a major advertiser. Lesser accounts like Leica would often be completely ignored, as if they didn't exist! Pick-up any old issue of Shutterbug, Pop Photo, Modern Photography, etc., and the only place you'll read about Leica is in the classifieds at the back.

Edited May 27, 2024 by BernardC
typo

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[tom0511]

Am 27.5.2024 um 05:35 schrieb kkcsm:

This is a feature of the SL3.  It is showing the world how to make a locomotive more aerodynamic!

why didn't you use mechanical shutter?