Disappointed with SL3

[Nedward]

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I've just received my SL3 and tested the 35mm and 50mm ASPH lenses, comparing both to Sony A7R5 and 35mm and 50mm G Masters. The lenses simply don't stand up to the Sony and as the whole reasoning behind buying Leica, for me is to experience the pinnacle of image quality, it looks like I'm gonna have to go down the APO route. Really thinking to myself, can I justify that..!

Also TBH, I'm not that impressed with the camera either, yes it's beautiful in hand and all the rest but first thing I notice is the shutter black out also the live view seems not really live until you depress the shutter half way and first impressions are it's a bit noisy at even quite low IOS (this remains to be really tested although). 

I know these are not going to be popular views here buy honestly Im thinking of returning it and sticking with my Sony and Q3. I love the brand etc but wondering is this just me or should I give it time.

 

 

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[loverofthelight]

In my opinion, there is no reason for you to have Leica, if you don't use their SL APO or SL summilux. Or you can use M optics as well. 

35 and 50mm ASPH, are just the same as Panasonic - doesn't have anything in common with Leica optics. But true Leica optics, are far better. 

Edited March 12, 2024 by loverofthelight

[helged]

27 minutes ago, Nedward said:

I've just received my SL3 and tested the 35mm and 50mm ASPH lenses, comparing both to Sony A7R5 and 35mm and 50mm G Masters. The lenses simply don't stand up to the Sony and as the whole reasoning behind buying Leica, for me is to experience the pinnacle of image quality, it looks like I'm gonna have to go down the APO route. Really thinking to myself, can I justify that..!

Also TBH, I'm not that impressed with the camera either, yes it's beautiful in hand and all the rest but first thing I notice is the shutter black out also the live view seems not really live until you depress the shutter half way and first impressions are it's a bit noisy at even quite low IOS (this remains to be really tested although). 

I know these are not going to be popular views here buy honestly Im thinking of returning it and sticking with my Sony and Q3. I love the brand etc but wondering is this just me or should I give it time.

 

 

It's good with choices! And as long as you can return the body after some testing, you have an unique opportunity to decide what to do.

I can't talk about the non-APOs, but the APOs are optically outstanding. To the extent that some may miss a certain degree of imperfection that is typically found in older lenses (can 'easily' be compensated by using adapters, or SL50Lux which is a favourite lens of mine). Factors that come to my mind on the negative side include - keeping the cost on the side - shutter black out (as you state); slow(ish) readout time to the sensor, influencing some video applications and to some extent the use of the electronic shutter; and low fps with AF. AF tracking is also lacking the top players out there, although FW-updates will likely improve on the latter. Personally, I can live with these limitations.

Based on shooting with SL3 since it was released, I am very pleased with the body; I foresee it will be my full-frame work horse for quite some years to come.

Edited March 12, 2024 by helged

[trickness]

The old adage is you buy Leica for the glass, not the body. I’ve got some great Leica glass but the SL APO’s are on another level for me. Others claim not to see the difference, or that for the money it’s not worth it. Personally I can’t see splurging 7k on a Leica body and then saving money on glass, but that’s me.

[Nedward]

4 minutes ago, helged said:

It's good with choices! And as long as you can return the body after some testing, you have an unique opportunity to decide what to do.

I can't talk about the non-APOs, but the APOs are optically outstanding. To the extent that some may miss a certain degree of imperfection that is typically found in older lenses (can 'easily' be compensated by using adapters, or SL50Lux which is a favourite lens of mine). Factors that come to my mind on the negative side include - keeping the cost on the side - shutter black out (as you state); slow(ish) readout time to the sensor, influencing some video applications and to some extent the use of the electronic shutter; and low fps with AF. AF tracking is also lacking the top players out there, although FW-updates will likely improve on the latter. Personally, I can live with these limitations.

Based on shooting with SL3 since it was released, I am very pleased with the body; I foresee it will be my full-frame work horse for quite some years to come.

 

[Dr. G]

I came from the Sony A7riv and Alpha 1 to the SL2/SL2-S.  With My A7riv and Alpha 1 I had all GMaster glass.  When I moved back to the SL system (I had the original SL601 years ago) I started with the lens I originally used, which was the 50mm Summilux-SL.  This lens was on par, or was slightly better, to my eyes than the 50mm GM 50 1.2.  I Picked up the APO Summicron 35, 50 and 75 and these lenses really are on another level - which I'm sure is not what you want to hear.  I've linked two videos below.  The first compares all the 50mm lenses Leica makes for L mount.  The second compares the Leica Summicron-SL (non APO) to the Sigma 50mm f2.  

The Q3 is a great camera, but the SL3 with one of the APO Summicron SL Lenses is better (for what I want in image quality).  So much so that I sold my Q3 (I don't love 28mm, anyway) and will gladly carry the larger SL3 system to geth what I'm looking for out of it.

I think the Summicxron-SL lenses are perfectly capable, but if you're buying the SL3 (or even the SL2-s as I have had for a few years now), the APO Summicron-SLs are really the lenses you want to get to be able to see wht these cameras can really do.  I've heard great things about a few of the Sigma ART lenses as well, but haven't had a chance to test them out yet (although I'm still torn on a wide angle and may try the 20mm 1.4 Sigma and the 21mm APO Summicron SL.

In the the last video, at around the 14 minute mark he talks about the lenses.  I don't know him but apparently he's a photographer that makes a living from photography.  He also doesn't sugar coat anything.  He basically says if you're going to buy into the SL system it's all about the photographer and the lens - and the camera shines with the best quality glass.

 

 

 

[Nedward]

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Thanks for that, yes I am super confident that the APOs are outstanding and tbh I just can’t ever see myself using Sigma/ Panasonic or other glass on a Leica so it’s just a case of running a few numbers, factoring in a couple of APO lenses. I guess I can live with the black out, slow frame rate and mostly I’m an af single shot user, I can live with that too. Coming down to budget again I guess…

[Dr. G]

7 minutes ago, trickness said:

The old adage is you buy Leica for the glass, not the body. I’ve got some great Leica glass but the SL APO’s are on another level for me. Others claim not to see the difference, or that for the money it’s not worth it. Personally I can’t see splurging 7k on a Leica body and then saving money on glass, but that’s me.

The APO glass is on another level.  Even the 50mm Summilux-SL stopped down to f/2 is nearly as good as the APO 50 SL.  If I didn't need the closer focus distance of the APO  for some of the things I do, I could be perfectly happy carrying the Lux instead of the APO.  

[Dr. G]

1 minute ago, Nedward said:

Thanks for that, yes I am super confident that the APOs are outstanding and tbh I just can’t ever see myself using Sigma/ Panasonic or other glass on a Leica so it’s just a case of running a few numbers, factoring in a couple of APO lenses. I guess I can live with the black out, slow frame rate and mostly I’m an af single shot user, I can live with that too. Coming down to budget again I guess…

Don't count out preowned APO SL lenses.  You'll save a bit and still get the same quality as a new one.

[Nedward]

3 minutes ago, Dr. G said:

I came from the Sony A7riv and Alpha 1 to the SL2/SL2-S.  With My A7riv and Alpha 1 I had all GMaster glass.  When I moved back to the SL system (I had the original SL601 years ago) I started with the lens I originally used, which was the 50mm Summilux-SL.  This lens was on par, or was slightly better, to my eyes than the 50mm GM 50 1.2.  I Picked up the APO Summicron 35, 50 and 75 and these lenses really are on another level - which I'm sure is not what you want to hear.  I've linked two videos below.  The first compares all the 50mm lenses Leica makes for L mount.  The second compares the Leica Summicron-SL (non APO) to the Sigma 50mm f2.  

The Q3 is a great camera, but the SL3 with one of the APO Summicron SL Lenses is better (for what I want in image quality).  So much so that I sold my Q3 (I don't love 28mm, anyway) and will gladly carry the larger SL3 system to geth what I'm looking for out of it.

I think the Summicxron-SL lenses are perfectly capable, but if you're buying the SL3 (or even the SL2-s as I have had for a few years now), the APO Summicron-SLs are really the lenses you want to get to be able to see wht these cameras can really do.  I've heard great things about a few of the Sigma ART lenses as well, but haven't had a chance to test them out yet (although I'm still torn on a wide angle and may try the 20mm 1.4 Sigma and the 21mm APO Summicron SL.

In the the last video, at around the 14 minute mark he talks about the lenses.  I don't know him but apparently he's a photographer that makes a living from photography.  He also doesn't sugar coat anything.  He basically says if you're going to buy into the SL system it's all about the photographer and the lens - and the camera shines with the best quality glass.

 

 

 

 

[Nedward]

Hey, thanks for that helpful response Dr. G 

Guess I’m going to have to make my mind up, but at the back of it all, I really know in my gut that I need to invest in APO glass. Thanks again to get the best of this camera.

[tomasis7]

you could sell Sony and buy APO

[Nedward]

4 minutes ago, tomasis7 said:

you could sell Sony and buy APO

hmm 🤔 true …

[Photoworks]

I think it is not as simple.

Do you want to enjoy taking photos, I have or have every version of the Sony a7R*, to me it is a safe bet, boring to use and occasionally fighting with a computer that thinks to know better.

If photography goes back to basics the Leica cameras are a great experience. If you follow the concept you don't need 10-20-30- frames a sec, and care about the moment and composition, then you will find yourself shooting single-frame AFs.

The Sony lenses are getting better every day, the G-master II's are good, and probably 98-99% from all manufacturers out there.

There is nothing wrong with getting Panasonic and Sigma lenses, they have a place in the Leica world, so much so that Leica put some time into it in rebranding them.
You need a 2.8 zoom, that is sigma, you want superwide, that is sigma too. If you want light and fast focusing and good for video, that is Panasonic lenses.

I have most of the Leica zoom and APO lenses and they are good if all you care is image quality, but if you get past it, you will realize that sharpness is not everything and you want some magic. Yes, it is a rabbit hole.
Apo lenses are a little slower focusing, and heavy to carry, maybe not one on the camera, but 3-4 in a bag will make you feel it.

Since nobody is saying it, I will. The service of Leica is going to challenge your patient. I just updated all Leica lenses with new firmware, the 50 APO failed the update and I had to send it is, I will see it back in 7 months and will cost $640. so yesterday I didn't buy another apo, I got the Panasonic 50mm for $350. All and all it is not a bad lens and happy to use it.

My last point is the Flash is not great and the only one you can use it Leica for TTL.

[loverofthelight]

10 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I think it is not as simple.

Do you want to enjoy taking photos, I have or have every version of the Sony a7R*, to me it is a safe bet, boring to use and occasionally fighting with a computer that thinks to know better.

If photography goes back to basics the Leica cameras are a great experience. If you follow the concept you don't need 10-20-30- frames a sec, and care about the moment and composition, then you will find yourself shooting single-frame AFs.

The Sony lenses are getting better every day, the G-master II's are good, and probably 98-99% from all manufacturers out there.

There is nothing wrong with getting Panasonic and Sigma lenses, they have a place in the Leica world, so much so that Leica put some time into it in rebranding them.
You need a 2.8 zoom, that is sigma, you want superwide, that is sigma too. If you want light and fast focusing and good for video, that is Panasonic lenses.

I have most of the Leica zoom and APO lenses and they are good if all you care is image quality, but if you get past it, you will realize that sharpness is not everything and you want some magic. Yes, it is a rabbit hole.
Apo lenses are a little slower focusing, and heavy to carry, maybe not one on the camera, but 3-4 in a bag will make you feel it.

Since nobody is saying it, I will. The service of Leica is going to challenge your patient. I just updated all Leica lenses with new firmware, the 50 APO failed the update and I had to send it is, I will see it back in 7 months and will cost $640. so yesterday I didn't buy another apo, I got the Panasonic 50mm for $350. All and all it is not a bad lens and happy to use it.

My last point is the Flash is not great and the only one you can use it Leica for TTL.

I think SL APO lenses, or Summilux SL are not all about sharpness. Lenses have better "character" overall. Better bokeh, better "3D look".... Sharpness is the least important in my opinion. Also, M glass has much better feeling than any sigma, Panasonic, sony,... 

Edited March 12, 2024 by loverofthelight

[trickness]

12 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I think it is not as simple.

Do you want to enjoy taking photos, I have or have every version of the Sony a7R*, to me it is a safe bet, boring to use and occasionally fighting with a computer that thinks to know better.

If photography goes back to basics the Leica cameras are a great experience. If you follow the concept you don't need 10-20-30- frames a sec, and care about the moment and composition, then you will find yourself shooting single-frame AFs.

The Sony lenses are getting better every day, the G-master II's are good, and probably 98-99% from all manufacturers out there.

There is nothing wrong with getting Panasonic and Sigma lenses, they have a place in the Leica world, so much so that Leica put some time into it in rebranding them.
You need a 2.8 zoom, that is sigma, you want superwide, that is sigma too. If you want light and fast focusing and good for video, that is Panasonic lenses.

I have most of the Leica zoom and APO lenses and they are good if all you care is image quality, but if you get past it, you will realize that sharpness is not everything and you want some magic. Yes, it is a rabbit hole.
Apo lenses are a little slower focusing, and heavy to carry, maybe not one on the camera, but 3-4 in a bag will make you feel it.

Since nobody is saying it, I will. The service of Leica is going to challenge your patient. I just updated all Leica lenses with new firmware, the 50 APO failed the update and I had to send it is, I will see it back in 7 months and will cost $640. so yesterday I didn't buy another apo, I got the Panasonic 50mm for $350. All and all it is not a bad lens and happy to use it.

My last point is the Flash is not great and the only one you can use it Leica for TTL.

That is unbelievable that they are going to charge you 640 bucks to fix a lens that died during a firmware update. Absolutely ludicrous.

[Photoworks]

5 minutes ago, trickness said:

That is unbelievable that they are going to charge you 640 bucks to fix a lens that died during a firmware update. Absolutely ludicrous.

It was just out of warranty by a few months.

[opera207]

Leica SL 35mm &50mm ASPH are just duplicates of Panasonic 35mm&50mm f1.8, which are under $600 and $350. Although some people believe that Leica and Panasonic are very different.

Similarly, SL3 is only a low parameter high premium version of A7R5.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[trickness]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

It was just out of warranty by a few months.

But still - it was their firmware that bricked it. They should just fix it for free or not require firmware updates which are probably not even necessary for the lenses. 

[erudolph]

44 minutes ago, trickness said:

But still - it was their firmware that bricked it. They should just fix it for free or not require firmware updates which are probably not even necessary for the lenses. 

+1