One more bug…

[M11 for me]

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb Smogg:

Then using the internal memory and the copy function does not provide any benefit in combating the main problem🥲

I'll have to buy an SL3 to continue using M lenses😂

No.

Just take out the SD card furst and copy it to your PC/Mac, Then put it back into your camera and firmat it in camera. Then copy your files from the internal memory to the SD card. Then it works. That is a "problem" from the very beginning. Maybe its not a problem, just a "know hiw to do".

I hope that I understood you correctly.

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[lct]

6 minutes ago, Smogg said:

[...] I was not looking for this bug intentionally [...]

It may be a bug for you but the way i perceive it, it is a feature of the camera. There are things i can do with my Sony that i cannot with my M11 and vice versa. I've been taking photos for half a century more or less. In the film days, i used to use Canon and Nikon SLRs for things i could not do with my Ms. Now i have a Sony A7r2 mod to do the same in digital. If i had not my Sony i could be tempted by the SL3 perhaps but i never asked  my M cameras to behave like CanoNikoSony ones, with all due respect for the latters, and for you needless to say 😎

[Smogg]

1 minute ago, lct said:

It may be a bug for you but the way i perceive it, it is a feature of the camera. There are things i can do with my Sony that i cannot with my M11 and vice versa. I've been taking photos for half a century more or less. In the film days, i used to use Canon and Nikon SLRs for things i could not do with my Ms. Now i have a Sony A7r2 mod to do the same in digital. If i had not my Sony i could be tempted by the SL3 perhaps but i never asked  my M cameras to behave like CanoNikoSony ones, with all due respect for the latters, and for you needless to say 😎

You made an analogy with a car. Wonderful! I'll use your analogy: Your car stalls several times a day, while flashing on the dashboard the message "get out of the car, walk around it, sit down and start the engine again." Will you also calmly react to this event?

[Smogg]

13 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

No.

Just take out the SD card furst and copy it to your PC/Mac, Then put it back into your camera and firmat it in camera. Then copy your files from the internal memory to the SD card. Then it works. That is a "problem" from the very beginning. Maybe its not a problem, just a "know hiw to do".

I hope that I understood you correctly.

I don't carry my Mac with me all the time. The memory capacity of 64Gb is too small and it turns out that instead of my 3 128Gb cards, which I usually take on a trip, I need to take 6 cards of 64Gb each😂 due to the fact that Leica has not fixed a critical bug for 3 months and has not fixed another bug for more than 2 years, which was pointed out to Leica during the beta test

Edited March 9, 2024 by Smogg

[Edax]

According to the manual:

"You can choose to transfer all files in the internal memory to the

inserted memory card, or only those images rated as ★. This may be

useful if e.g. the internal memory will be formatted, or if previously

you were saving images to the internal memory, because there was

no memory card available at the time of the shooting. Always use an

empty, formatted card."

The bug is the error screen. It gives the faulty impression that the problem is same-named files on SD card and  internal memory. The real problem is that the card is not empty.

[Smogg]

2 minutes ago, Edax said:

According to the manual:

"You can choose to transfer all files in the internal memory to the

inserted memory card, or only those images rated as ★. This may be

useful if e.g. the internal memory will be formatted, or if previously

you were saving images to the internal memory, because there was

no memory card available at the time of the shooting. Always use an

empty, formatted card."

The bug is the error screen. It gives the faulty impression that the problem is same-named files on SD card and  internal memory. The real problem is that the card is not empty.

Thanks, that sounds reasonable

[lct]

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5 minutes ago, Edax said:

[...] The real problem is that the card is not empty.

Could it be the user abstaining from using an empty card in spite of Leica's instructions? Just asking.

[Smogg]

22 minutes ago, lct said:

Could it be the user abstaining from using an empty card in spite of Leica's instructions? Just asking.

Leica's instructions also state that the camera takes pictures, rather than constantly freezing and damaging files😂

If the camera is full of bugs, then the instructions are not spared from bugs

[Edax]

22 minutes ago, lct said:

Could it be the user abstaining from using an empty card in spite of Leica's instructions? Just asking.

No, the user is wrong-footed by the error screen. The error screen is Leica's responsibility, the message on it is not according to the manual "Always use an empty, formatted card"

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Edax said:

No, the user is wrong-footed by the error screen. The error screen is Leica's responsibility, the message on it is not according to the manual "Always use an empty, formatted card"

The screen i got was asking the same as the instructions if i remember well. Something like "Please empty the SD card". But i may be missing something...

[Smogg]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

The screen i got was asking the same as the instructions if i remember well. Something like "Please empty the SD card". But i may be missing something...

I attached screenshot in the first post

[lct]

9 minutes ago, Smogg said:

I attached screenshot in the first post

OK: "Please empty SD card". What happened when you did that? I tried and it worked perfectly.

[Smogg]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

OK: "Please empty SD card". What happened when you did that? I tried and it worked perfectly.

Copying to a blank card works, but I needed something completely different. You're either pretending you don't understand or you're mocking me.

[lct]

1 minute ago, Smogg said:

Copying to a blank card works, but I needed something completely different. You're either pretending you don't understand or you're mocking me.

Or i am completely stupid, if you prefer, but you were supposed to empty the card and you did not do it, or perhaps i'm missing something again...

[dugby]

17 hours ago, Smogg said:

Due to known issues with freezing and corrupted files, I stopped using direct shooting with SD cards and started using the internal memory on the M11. This approach allowed me to slightly increase reliability, although it did not completely eliminate the problem described above. But since the internal memory is only 64GB, this is not enough for me. It would seem that there is a solution to this problem - when the internal memory is full, using the built-in function, we copy files from it to a large SD card, followed by formatting the internal memory, and so on as needed until the SD card is full, then we change the card to another.
But even here an unpleasant discovery awaited me: a similar action cannot be performed twice, the camera gives an error of duplicating file names and refuses to copy, although the built-in memory was formatted after a previous copy and there are no coincidences in file names, which is easy to check if you connect the camera to a computer and look at the names files on both media

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The above conflict in file name may possibly not pertain to image file names.

There may be a system file name (possibly a non-displayed file) that gets created or transferred each time a transfer of images files from IM to SD occurs.

 

In some IT systems, a message of "please empty ...." may be more than just a "move/delete", and may require a format.......

 

And yes, the M11 is a mini "IT system"- It has

CPU

RAM, Cache

Storage

Networking

Monitor

Keyboard and Mouse

Operating System

and sadly defects (bugs in it’s code)

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2024 by dugby

[elmars]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Smogg:

The idea was to transfer files from the internal memory to a larger card in several portions as the internal memory fills up, rather than copying them to a blank card.

Yes, so it should work. 

[fotografr]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:00 AM, Al Brown said:

The whole camera world is in 2024 but Leica's M11 is still in 2014.

Anyone who believes these problems are unique to Leica might benefit from the following exercise; select any digital camera model, enter it's name along with the words "lock ups, freezes, corrupt files, bad exposures," etc., and do a Google search. 

[Smogg]

2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I was not talking about freezes, corrupt files nor bad exposures. I was talking exclusively about data wrangling between SSD and card, the file conflict topic this thread is dedicated to. I also do not believe in whataboutism.

No one would have paid attention to this bug (it is really minor) if there had not been a global problem with freezes and file corruption. I was just trying to find a temporary solution for the year during which Leica will fix the main bug

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[marchyman]

20 hours ago, lct said:

or perhaps i'm missing something again...

You are missing the disconnect between what is vs what is expected.   Sometimes this is referred to as the principle of least astonishment.   Many would assume that you could pick and choose images from internal memory to copy to a memory card.  I am one of those people.  Thus I was astonished that in the Leica implementation you can only copy to an empty memory card.  That is the disconnect.

To be fair, I have not actually tried moving one image at a time to a memory card that isn't empty.  I haven't tried because of what the manual says coupled with no particular need with my workflow.  But I certainly understand the need.  I can easily imagine someone flagging images to transfer, transferring those images, then deciding that they want to add a few more images but being told they can't.  Such would be seen as a bug.  Given what the manual says it might be classified as a design bug, but still a bug.  It's a "Leica did it this way but customers want it that way" bug.

[fotografr]

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I was not talking about freezes, corrupt files nor bad exposures. I was talking exclusively about data wrangling between SSD and card, the file conflict topic this thread is dedicated to. I also do not believe in whataboutism.

That would be the "etc." in my comment.