Photoshop Elements, nothing more for me

[250swb]

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3 hours ago, Strmbrg said:

Tidy up the image is therefore of great concern for me. Often that can be done without so much "peeping", the purpose is just to get rid of the distraction.

In film photography printmaking there is the adage 'if it looks like dust it is dust (so remove it)'. In other words get rid of the distractions, even a spot highlight (or dust) that distracts the eye from the main purpose of the image. Of course spotting-in the print took much longer then than using the spot removal brush in Photoshop.

Edited March 4, 2024 by 250swb

[Anbaric]

12 hours ago, stuny said:

I'm also angry at Adobe.  Their old Photoshop CS3 has an app called Contribute, which I had been using for creating new text pages and editing existing text pages on our site.  However, I had a computer crash, and when I tried to activate CS3 on my new computer I found that Adobe had retired the server that grants activation via key codes.  Fair enough since its costs them to maintain old, legacy systems.  Speaking at length with Adobe tech and with Adobe sales, the best I could do was to buy (which I did not) an application which they finally admitted would not do what I needed to do.

The really annoying thing is that Adobe have a version that doesn't need online activation, but they will no longer give it to you. As with CS2, after the activation servers were shut down they offered an activation-free version for download on their website (though with CS3 you had to jump through more hoops and prove you had a valid key and licence to enable the download). If you could get hold of this you could install it even now. Sadly, the page that provided this version vanished without warning several years ago, and today Adobe hardly acknowledge it ever existed. The new installer, incidentally, came with a new key, and I believe that for a given edition (e.g. CS3 Web Standard for PC), everyone was given the same key. Customer Service will stonewall you about this, and the average CS rep may not know any better (things like this won't be in their script). Perhaps a stiffly worded letter from your legal representative, demanding they allow you access to the software you paid for, would be more successful.

Edited March 5, 2024 by Anbaric

[hepcat]

10 hours ago, Strmbrg said:

Okay! So it is about convenience and maybe time-saving, rather than image-quality then?

Well, I'd say that depends on what you consider "image quality" to be.  If all you're concerned with is cropping and outputting a .jpg with 2400dpi on the long edge, then layers probably aren't an issue.  If you're retouching, using brushes, dodging, burning, or doing any of a hundred other tasks on small parts of the image, then layers are a necessity.  I don't think they're either convenient or time-saving.  They're all about image quality and improving an already good image. 

[Strmbrg]

Of course it depends on what one considers "image quality". Sometimes "image-creating technique" can get - at least me - to focus too much just on the technique, not so much on the final result. (Hard to explain the difference maybe.)

Hm, maybe thou one should consider a "pen" instead of my old trackball.
So, what this has to do with editing programs, I don't know... Maybe a pen can give me a lot more of precision when marking areas and such. Maybe better to start an upgrade in this part of all the things to change and upgrade. This is also very much technique, of course. But maybe this is more of some kind of simplifying one than a "complexicating" one?

What do you use? Conventional mouse, trackball, pen or?..

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, Strmbrg said:

Of course it depends on what one considers "image quality". Sometimes "image-creating technique" can get - at least me - to focus too much just on the technique, not so much on the final result. (Hard to explain the difference maybe.)

Hm, maybe thou one should consider a "pen" instead of my old trackball.
So, what this has to do with editing programs, I don't know... Maybe a pen can give me a lot more of precision when marking areas and such. Maybe better to start an upgrade in this part of all the things to change and upgrade. This is also very much technique, of course. But maybe this is more of some kind of simplifying one than a "complexicating" one?

What do you use? Conventional mouse, trackball, pen or?..

Does noise reduction and sharpening, or colour balancing in mixed lighting count as image quality or technique? I would say very much image quality, and both can benefit very much from using layers, because they allow you to choose areas of the image to apply greater or lesser amounts of adjustment.

I just use a mouse.

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Strmbrg said:

 

What do you use? Conventional mouse, trackball, pen or?..

Definitely a mouse for me.

I'm sure if you search for a YouTube video tutorial about doing something really simple in PSE or Lightroom such as 'dodging and burning' you'd soon see how little time it takes and the subtle change it can make to a photograph for the better. Then go further and learn other simple things if you need to.

[hansvons]

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2 hours ago, Strmbrg said:

What do you use? Conventional mouse, trackball, pen or?..

Wacom Intuos plus a pen. A mouse and a pen are a draw when using sliders, etc. For rotoscoping, e.g. painting out blemishes, a pen works better. For daylong work, a pen is better for your hand and arm because the risk of getting a tennis elbow is highly reduced. 

[hepcat]

5 hours ago, Strmbrg said:

Of course it depends on what one considers "image quality". Sometimes "image-creating technique" can get - at least me - to focus too much just on the technique, not so much on the final result. (Hard to explain the difference maybe.)

Hm, maybe thou one should consider a "pen" instead of my old trackball.
So, what this has to do with editing programs, I don't know... Maybe a pen can give me a lot more of precision when marking areas and such. Maybe better to start an upgrade in this part of all the things to change and upgrade. This is also very much technique, of course. But maybe this is more of some kind of simplifying one than a "complexicating" one?

What do you use? Conventional mouse, trackball, pen or?..

What I use depends on what I'm doing.  If I'm doing close small-area work, I use a Wacom tablet and pen.  I also use a mouse, and my Macbook's built in track pad.

[Strmbrg]

Hm, what size of "Wacom" do you recommend?

 

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, Strmbrg said:

Hm, what size of "Wacom" do you recommend?

I'd take the Wacom Intuos Pro M. 

 

 

[hepcat]

2 hours ago, Strmbrg said:

Hm, what size of "Wacom" do you recommend?

 

My old tablet was 8x11.  The one I'm using now is 5x7 and it's fine.

[leica dream]

This thread is so timely for me. I have been using PSE11 since it was issued but lately it has been the sole application which held me back on the old 32 bit MAC OS so I have been researching alternatives.  After much experimentation of options (and prices) I settled on Capture One a few years back trying meagre adjustments. C1 was version 20 but have only become comfortable with it in recent months. So much so that only last Sunday I upgraded my MAC OS and thence removed the unusable/redundent PSE.  Also, moving back to film with my R3 I have found C1 adjusts enough for my needs. I realise it is very powerful elsewhere but I try to keep things as simple as possible.

[hansvons]

17 hours ago, leica dream said:

Also, moving back to film with my R3 I have found C1 adjusts enough for my needs.

Absolutely. C1 is excellent for editing negatives.

[Strmbrg]

Oh, no... I bought a Wacom Intuos for testing. And, no! More complex to use than my old trackball. Bad response and low precision as I value it. Maybe it is something to get used to but, no...
And, yes... I have the latest Elements downloading right now. Elements is totally enough for "my mentality" and hopefully this ten years newer version has some useful functions over the 14-version I have been using.

[ansteyp]

Timing for me also is perfect. I was perfectly happy with PSE, then attended a Leica workshop. I was the only one without Lightroom (and the only one shooting film - other than in the workshop). I concluded I must be missing something. A year later I conclude I have been missing something - the simplicity of PSE. So I'm returning. The only thing I'll miss is the organizing and searching features. 

[Strmbrg]

So, the newly downloaded PSE 2024 is not working with adjusting in RAW as my previous PSE 14. It can open the RAW-files, but something in my computers capability is too old, or maybe som hidden adjustment is necessary.

I get - as always - very frustrated on issues of this kind. It makes me focusing on COMPLETELY different matters than the purpose of it all:
To create photos. 🙂

Instead of trying to come around this, I instead returned my purchase for full refund. Why? Well, as I quickly understood, there is no real improvements in PSE 2024 from PSE 14. Maybe in the "Quick-fix-auto-adjust-part" of it, but in the "expert-part", it is virtually the same.

Conclusion:
Keep it as simple as you can! Always! No! EVEN simpler... 🙂
Every added feature or decision is getting me AWAY from the creative focus and instead TOWARDS the overwhelming distraction of choices, decisions and "gear-and-features-part" of the simple task of create see-worthy images. An example: I feel way more creative and way more capable of seeing things to make a photo of, when i am stuck to simple gear and one lens.

The complex part is to REALLY hold on to the ambition of keeping it all simple...
One can take bad and boring photos, and then play around with them in post processing for hours - and - in the worst case - one has a technically perfect boring image.
🙂

[stuny]

8 hours ago, Strmbrg said:

So, the newly downloaded PSE 2024 is not working with adjusting in RAW as my previous PSE 14. It can open the RAW-files, but something in my computers capability is too old, or maybe som hidden adjustment is necessary.

I get - as always - very frustrated on issues of this kind. It makes me focusing on COMPLETELY different matters than the purpose of it all:
To create photos. 🙂

Instead of trying to come around this, I instead returned my purchase for full refund. Why? Well, as I quickly understood, there is no real improvements in PSE 2024 from PSE 14. Maybe in the "Quick-fix-auto-adjust-part" of it, but in the "expert-part", it is virtually the same.

Conclusion:
Keep it as simple as you can! Always! No! EVEN simpler... 🙂
Every added feature or decision is getting me AWAY from the creative focus and instead TOWARDS the overwhelming distraction of choices, decisions and "gear-and-features-part" of the simple task of create see-worthy images. An example: I feel way more creative and way more capable of seeing things to make a photo of, when i am stuck to simple gear and one lens.

The complex part is to REALLY hold on to the ambition of keeping it all simple...
One can take bad and boring photos, and then play around with them in post processing for hours - and - in the worst case - one has a technically perfect boring image.
🙂

Your statement ("Keep it as simple as you can! Always! No! EVEN simpler... 🙂") makes me think of the famous quote from Lotus automobiles founder/designer, Colin Chapman:  "Add lightness."

[Strmbrg]

My talk about "boring pictures" is of course including my own pictures.
Not all of them, but a lot of them.

[hansvons]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:00 PM, Strmbrg said:

Oh, no... I bought a Wacom Intuos for testing. And, no! More complex to use than my old trackball. Bad response and low precision as I value it. Maybe it is something to get used to but, no...

 

You are missing something. The Intuos Pros are THE interface of choice for retouchers, compositors etc around the world. It takes a week or so to get familiar. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[hansvons]

17 hours ago, Strmbrg said:

An example: I feel way more creative and way more capable of seeing things to make a photo of, when i am stuck to simple gear and one lens.

Absolutely. I shoot everything with 35mm. A friend of mine who’s a sculptor, isn’t using raw and creates stunning imagery but is highly skilled in Photoshop, deliberately refusing to leverage the possibilities a raw workflow offers. There are tons of ways to skin a cat. Simplicity should be at its core.