Qfan Posted February 4 Share #1 Posted February 4 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just got my Q3. What a wonderful camera. But I am totally confused why the camera wants to lower the shutter speed below the set "Minimum Shutter Speed" when the max ISO is reached. Why doesn't Leica give us the option to override this behavior? Sometimes, I'd rather stick with the minimum shutter speed, when the max ISO is reached, because there are a lot of good reasons for it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Hi Qfan, Take a look here How to overcome Q3 going below set Minimum Shutter Speed?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 4 Share #2 Posted February 4 The override is to set the speed manually. The camera wants to produce a usable image. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelu2010 Posted February 4 Share #3 Posted February 4 Maybe a little more information is helpful. which mode are you in? S , A, P ? how are your settings (auto iso) which situation? What kind of shutter speed does the camera use? I am not sure , what you are referring to. cheers 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 4 Share #4 Posted February 4 4 hours ago, Qfan said: Just got my Q3. What a wonderful camera. But I am totally confused why the camera wants to lower the shutter speed below the set "Minimum Shutter Speed" when the max ISO is reached. Why doesn't Leica give us the option to override this behavior? Sometimes, I'd rather stick with the minimum shutter speed, when the max ISO is reached, because there are a lot of good reasons for it. This is standard camera behavior: the shutter speed decreases if the ISO limit is reached. The idea is that with the ISO limit, you want to specify a max "noise" level in your image. The noise level will increase if the shutter speed does not go down. If you want to keep the shutter speed at the set value as long as possible, increase the Auto-ISO limit to the maximum. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfan Posted February 5 Author Share #5 Posted February 5 5 hours ago, SrMi said: If you want to keep the shutter speed at the set value as long as possible, increase the Auto-ISO limit to the maximum. Thanks for your feedback. Just wondering though, what is a good alternative strategy to "keep the shutter speed at the set value as long as possible," WITHOUT increasing Auto-ISO to the maximum. I know that I can go manual by fixing the shutter speed, but then when a higher shutter speed is needed, the camera won't automatically switch to it due to the manual dial at the fixed shutter speed. This can all be solved by giving us an override or an option to block the camera from going below minimum shutter speed. But without this feature, what other options are available? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 5 Share #6 Posted February 5 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Qfan said: Thanks for your feedback. Just wondering though, what is a good alternative strategy to "keep the shutter speed at the set value as long as possible," WITHOUT increasing Auto-ISO to the maximum. I know that I can go manual by fixing the shutter speed, but then when a higher shutter speed is needed, the camera won't automatically switch to it due to the manual dial at the fixed shutter speed. This can all be solved by giving us an override or an option to block the camera from going below minimum shutter speed. But without this feature, what other options are available? Assuming a fixed minimum shutter speed requirement, you should explain why you do not want the ISO to reach the maximum. Let's assume situation A, where a camera can do what you desire: when metering hits the Auto-ISO, the shutter speed does not go slower than the limit. This means you are underexposing (let's assume by one stop) and must lift the brightness in the post. Let's assume a situation B, where you allow ISO to go to the max. ISO: the camera selects ISO one stop higher than in A) and keeps the shutter speed the same. There is no need to lift the brightness in the post. Situations A and B will produce images with similar IQ (noise/DR), but B needs less work. Remember, ISO does not determine the noise. Edited February 5 by SrMi 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nariza7 Posted February 5 Share #7 Posted February 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) 40 minutes ago, Qfan said: Thanks for your feedback. Just wondering though, what is a good alternative strategy to "keep the shutter speed at the set value as long as possible," WITHOUT increasing Auto-ISO to the maximum. I know that I can go manual by fixing the shutter speed, but then when a higher shutter speed is needed, the camera won't automatically switch to it due to the manual dial at the fixed shutter speed. This can all be solved by giving us an override or an option to block the camera from going below minimum shutter speed. But without this feature, what other options are available? I’m wishing for the exact same thing, but unfortunately I have not found it. I find Sony cameras to be the same with lowest shutter at 1/60. I’ve been meaning to set auto shutter at min of 1/125 where iso will go up when darker, but at the same time, I’d want iso to be at like 100 with auto shutter going up to compensate for exposure in bright settings. One configuration to handle both scenarios would’ve been great, but I don’t think it exists. I’ve just been doing what’s been said before where I switch dial to 1/125 in dark scenarios, and then dial to auto during daytime. Would love an override to limit lowest shutter in auto mode 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted February 5 Share #8 Posted February 5 There’s no free lunch. If you fix the shutter speed in Shutter Priority or Manual you avoid camera shake and blurred images. No AI cure for that yet that I’m aware of. And…let the ISO roam wherever it needs to go. With AI denoise programs you can at least clean up the worst effects of high ISO. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfan Posted February 6 Author Share #9 Posted February 6 On 2/4/2024 at 9:09 PM, SrMi said: Assuming a fixed minimum shutter speed requirement, you should explain why you do not want the ISO to reach the maximum Remember, ISO does not determine the noise. You're right, high ISO does not determine the noise, to a certain extent, especially due to the ISO invariant nature of the Q3 sensor. The reason that I don't want ISO to reach maximum, is to keep the highlight headroom, just in case it is needed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfan Posted February 6 Author Share #10 Posted February 6 On 2/4/2024 at 12:15 PM, Pelu2010 said: Maybe a little more information is helpful. which mode are you in? S , A, P ? how are your settings (auto iso) which situation? What kind of shutter speed does the camera use? cheers Great set of questions. Usually I am in Auto with Minimum Shutter Speed set to 1/125 because anything lower usually introduces shake, with my style of shooting. During the day, it's fine. But sometimes when I am in the shade, go inside a cafe, I forget that my maximum ISO is only set to 3200, so I won't have to waste time doing noise reduction later in post. Or by the time I remember I need to change ISO higher or manually use the dial to switch to 1/125, the subject is gone and that I have taken a few shots at 1/30 which all turned out blurry. That's why I want the Q3 to STOP going below 1/125 when I have obviously set the "Minimum" Shutter Speed to 1/125. Why is the function even called "Minimum" when the camera will decide to go down lower than 1/125 when needed? It's so strange that this behavior cannot be stopped. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfan Posted February 6 Author Share #11 Posted February 6 On 2/4/2024 at 9:32 PM, nariza7 said: I’m wishing for the exact same thing, but unfortunately I have not found it. I find Sony cameras to be the same with lowest shutter at 1/60.... Would love an override to limit lowest shutter in auto mode Thanks for sharing your experience about Sony. I am shocked to find out that Sony cameras which seem to have everything also don't have a way to STOP the shutter from going below the "minimum" setting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfan Posted February 6 Author Share #12 Posted February 6 16 hours ago, Le Chef said: There’s no free lunch. If you fix the shutter speed in Shutter Priority or Manual you avoid camera shake and blurred images. No AI cure for that yet that I’m aware of. And…let the ISO roam wherever it needs to go. With AI denoise programs you can at least clean up the worst effects of high ISO. I agree with using AI Denoise, the results are amazing! But only maybe in the future when it doesn't take several minutes to run each photo though AI Denoise in Lightroom. Right now, it simply takes too long to use, so I am avoiding using AI Denoise whenever possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted February 6 Share #13 Posted February 6 (edited) You might want to create different user profiles for day light or for lower light. Just an idea. But then there are these situations that are well in between your profile situations (none of the profile is right). Therefore I prefer manual settings in unclear light situations: Then I normally set the Aperture to Auto (which means probably f/1.7 in practice) then Shutter speed I set manually depending on sceene and finally ISO is Auto as well (max. ISO I have set to 12'800). Finally in the viewfinder I always have the histogram activated. Edited February 6 by M11 for me 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 6 Share #14 Posted February 6 6 hours ago, Qfan said: You're right, high ISO does not determine the noise, to a certain extent, especially due to the ISO invariant nature of the Q3 sensor. The reason that I don't want ISO to reach maximum, is to keep the highlight headroom, just in case it is needed. That is a good reason, but you want to do that also for ISO below your max Auto-ISO value. I regularly apply a negative EC of one stop when I am at higher ISOs and in Auto ISO mode. The negative EC applies only to ISO, not exposure, and the EVF is still bright enough for framing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 6 Share #15 Posted February 6 6 hours ago, Qfan said: I agree with using AI Denoise, the results are amazing! But only maybe in the future when it doesn't take several minutes to run each photo though AI Denoise in Lightroom. Right now, it simply takes too long to use, so I am avoiding using AI Denoise whenever possible. You need a computer with a very fast graphics card. A Q3 file takes 15 seconds to run through AI Denoise on my Mac Studio with M1 Ultra. On some computers, similar DxO tools run twice as fast as AI Denoise, and on some (e.g., mine), DxO runs twice as long as AI Denoise. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nariza7 Posted February 6 Share #16 Posted February 6 (edited) 7 hours ago, Qfan said: Thanks for sharing your experience about Sony. I am shocked to find out that Sony cameras which seem to have everything also don't have a way to STOP the shutter from going below the "minimum" setting. yeah. though with Sony, my scenario is for video. Just wanted to mention that in case. They have an auto min SS, but that can go lower when its darker Edited February 6 by nariza7 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayamuz Posted February 6 Share #17 Posted February 6 The best way to achieve this, probably, is to use exposure compensation assigning it to the thumbwheel. Setting the dial to -1 or -2 is usually enough to prevent the camera from overriding the SS. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 6 Share #18 Posted February 6 12 hours ago, Qfan said: Thanks for sharing your experience about Sony. I am shocked to find out that Sony cameras which seem to have everything also don't have a way to STOP the shutter from going below the "minimum" setting. Sony, Nikon, Leica, and Fuji do not because there is no scenario where it makes sense to stop lowering the shutter speed below the minimum setting and underexpose instead. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfan Posted February 6 Author Share #19 Posted February 6 12 hours ago, M11 for me said: You might want to create different user profiles for day light or for lower light. Just an idea. But then there are these situations that are well in between your profile situations (none of the profile is right). Therefore I prefer manual settings in unclear light situations Great suggestion, I will try to think of what's a good set of settings for a profile to cover most of daylight shooting, and then another for lower light. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfan Posted February 6 Author Share #20 Posted February 6 6 hours ago, SrMi said: That is a good reason, but you want to do that also for ISO below your max Auto-ISO value. I regularly apply a negative EC of one stop when I am at higher ISOs and in Auto ISO mode. The negative EC applies only to ISO, not exposure, and the EVF is still bright enough for framing. Using EC is another great idea. I need to test if I am fast enough using EC, because I find myself quite slow when using EC, because I need to check both histogram and whether Auto-ISO has dropped enough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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