Schneider, 80mm (8cm) f2 Xenon (M39, chrome/black)

[Cekz]

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Hello, anyone have any info on this lens?  I know its rare I have a similar one as photo'd but it is in ft measurements is the only difference.  Curious what you might know I have seen it go at auction for a quite a bit in 2014.  I don't know much about lens or collecting so any info is helpful, i'm curious is the market much higher over last 10 years and for example why is this colorway more sought after than the solid black?  

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Edited January 23 by Cekz

[Ecar]

Welcome to the forum.

It's indeed rare. Possibly a (period) re-mount of the original Exakta chrome version made for the VP and its variants. AFAIK: the all-black LTM version is rarer but the main issue with these LTM variants is that they are not RF coupled, so unless you are a true collector and are happy to use it on a LV-enabled body, a copy in Exakta mount would be somewhat easier to find - and also less expensive. Regarding prices, it's all down to condition, as there are not that many buyers out there for a fairly obscure lens that does not seem to be as well-regarded as other 80mm contemporary Exakta lenses (eg, the Meyer Primoplan 80/1.9 or the CZJ Biotar 80/2).

As you noted, information on this lens is very scarce, so the above is to be taken with more than a pinch of salt. Hope this helps nevertheless.

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[Pyrogallol]

With an Exakta to Leica adaptor I can use lenses like this 58mm f1.9 Primoplan by scale focussing.

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[Ecar]

17 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

With an Exakta to Leica adaptor I can use lenses like this 58mm f1.9 Primoplan by scale focussing.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, I often enjoy shooting my lenses wide open and close to the subject. When that's the case, I can't trust my scale focussing skills - or the accuracy of the scale itself - and need some help from the rangefinder, especially on digital (under torture, I may also admit to occasionally using the EVF...😉)

Two (non-destructively) converted and RF coupled 58/1.9 Primoplans below: uncoated pre-war on the left and coated post-war on the right.

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[Cekz]

So I was asking because I have seen this go at auction in 2014 for a lot of money so there is something about it that make it quite rare apparently.  The serial number is quite low so I think its pre ww2 due to that.  I'm guessing this is very niche so maybe not much knowledge about this particular run of lenses.  

One similar in 2014 auctioned for about $13,000 and I'm curious hasnt the market improved on vintage lenses so it's very hard to estimate a value especially since condition matters a lot.

Schneider: 80mm (8cm) f2 Xenon (M39, chrome/black) Lens Price Guide: estimate your lens value (collectiblend.com)

[luigi bertolotti]

S/n of Schneider lenses by age can be found here https://ground-glass.net/schneider-lenses-age/  ; Xenon 80 f2, in various mounts (Exakta, even Alpa...) are present in a rather wid timing... mid 30's to mid 50's and maybe over. Maybe also the glass design had variants...  it existed also for Medium Format films (and for cine usage, too)

 

Edited January 25 by luigi bertolotti

[Cekz]

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Interesting mine is in this 1.800.000 range so 1942 ish.

[Ecar]

I have a late copy of this lens (3700000 range, probably 1954). Coated, chrome, all-brass, heavy, beautiful condition. Bought not too long ago for about $1,000. Mine is in Exakta mount, currently being CLA'd and converted to M.

Edited January 26 by Ecar

[Ecar]

On 1/25/2024 at 9:45 AM, Cekz said:

One similar in 2014 auctioned for about $13,000 and I'm curious hasnt the market improved on vintage lenses so it's very hard to estimate a value especially since condition matters a lot.

If you want to get a sense of how much it might be worth these days, take some pictures, get in touch with an auctioneer and ask them for an estimate should you decide to sell it. Although, for items such as these, there's no actual *market value* - only a price that one of very few collectors is willing to pay to have it at a given point in time. If there's more than one who's interested, then you are in luck as you can hope for a bidding war...😉

Edited January 26 by Ecar

[willeica]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:45 AM, Cekz said:

So I was asking because I have seen this go at auction in 2014 for a lot of money so there is something about it that make it quite rare apparently.  The serial number is quite low so I think its pre ww2 due to that.  I'm guessing this is very niche so maybe not much knowledge about this particular run of lenses.  

One similar in 2014 auctioned for about $13,000 and I'm curious hasnt the market improved on vintage lenses so it's very hard to estimate a value especially since condition matters a lot.

Schneider: 80mm (8cm) f2 Xenon (M39, chrome/black) Lens Price Guide: estimate your lens value (collectiblend.com)

You are right about your assumptions. This lens does not have much of an 'auction trail' in the M39 mount, so the value could go in any direction. In addition it is available in other mounts and you will see the variations for those in the panel on the right hand side of the Collectiblend page. The only way of testing this would be to actually put it on the market, with a reserve, to see what it might fetch. We don't do valuations on this site, but we can give general advice. Auctioneers can also advise, but the first thing they would do would be to check previous auction results. Given the paucity of such results it would be difficult to predict any value trend. 

Back in the 1930s, Schneider lenses were highly regarded, even by other manufacturers such as Leitz. I suspect that Zeiss was regarded as the cream of the crop with Schneider just behind. Leitz was still a comparative unknown, except to people who used Leica cameras as Leitz only 'dipped its toe' into the general lens market and then retreated to concentrate on producing lenses for its own cameras. These days things are different and versions of old 'non-Leitz' cameras with Leitz lenses has skyrocketed carried on the general value perception of Leica and Leitz. This does not mean those lenses are better, just that they are considered more desirable. I would regard your Schneider lens as 'desirable', but only the market can determine what it is worth. 

William 

 

Edited January 26 by willeica

[Cekz]

On 1/26/2024 at 3:38 AM, willeica said:

You are right about your assumptions. This lens does not have much of an 'auction trail' in the M39 mount, so the value could go in any direction. In addition it is available in other mounts and you will see the variations for those in the panel on the right hand side of the Collectiblend page. The only way of testing this would be to actually put it on the market, with a reserve, to see what it might fetch. We don't do valuations on this site, but we can give general advice. Auctioneers can also advise, but the first thing they would do would be to check previous auction results. Given the paucity of such results it would be difficult to predict any value trend. 

Back in the 1930s, Schneider lenses were highly regarded, even by other manufacturers such as Leitz. I suspect that Zeiss was regarded as the cream of the crop with Schneider just behind. Leitz was still a comparative unknown, except to people who used Leica cameras as Leitz only 'dipped its toe' into the general lens market and then retreated to concentrate on producing lenses for its own cameras. These days things are different and versions of old 'non-Leitz' cameras with Leitz lenses has skyrocketed carried on the general value perception of Leica and Leitz. This does not mean those lenses are better, just that they are considered more desirable. I would regard your Schneider lens as 'desirable', but only the market can determine what it is worth. 

William 

Yeah, this is helpful, for some reason this same lens in all black only was only estimated on collectiblend around 2-3k and the chrome and black went like mine went for way more.  All the comments have been very helpful, I am in contact with the auction house Tamarkin Auctions they do a yearly auction but it will be in December.   I will be providing them with photos shortly and they are very interested in having the lens in their auction.  I just want to learn as much about this lens / lens market in general as I have a lot of reselling experience in estimating values but almost no camera or vintage lens knowledge.