M11 and M11M together or not ?

[lct]

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That's what i suspected, thank you @Jeff S and oh well for the mono then.

[Guest]

On 1/2/2024 at 4:44 AM, lct said:

Recurrent question, i guess, but i don't recall the answer. Do digital colour filters work with mono cameras?

Yes ... with a creative workaround (most of the time good enough for the purpose of applying a color filter and going back to monochrome):

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Left to right (screenshot):
M10M original, Photoshop 'Colorize" Neural Filter, Silver Efex Blue Filter (to show one with a bigger impact on this image)

[Jeff S]

On 1/3/2024 at 8:50 PM, mzbe said:

Yes ... with a creative workaround (most of the time good enough for the purpose of applying a color filter and going back to monochrome):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Left to right (screenshot):
M10M original, Photoshop 'Colorize" Neural Filter, Silver Efex Blue Filter (to show one with a bigger impact on this image)

As described and linked in post #18.

Jeff

[Stevejack]

I probably can't add much more than what's already been said but after swearing I would never sell my M10M, I have put it up for sale after finding a used M11M. 

I'm 95% a black and white shooter but after getting the M11 there were just so many little quality of life improvements on the new camera that I found myself using the M10M less and less and just converting the colour to black and white. This had nothing to do with the option to shoot in colour, it was due to using wider and longer lenses more often these days, and mostly using the camera in bright sun at low ISO. The new Visoflex is very good and coupled with the low-latency live view on the M11 it makes using the WATE and 90mm lenses a lot nicer.

I think if I was still shooting solely with a 35mm or 50mm lens, the M10M would be staying. I find it to be a nicer rangefinder camera than the M11... I'm just shooting wide with the Leica too often these days. 

The M11 black and white conversions are truly top notch - I think unless you're really dedicated to black and white you'd be mad to carry both if budget is a concern. You definitely have (almost) the best of both worlds with the M11. I definitely considered just keeping the M11 myself. 

But the monochrom files are so nice... I love working with them in Lightroom and even though I don't think anyone can truly tell a difference between colour conversion or pure mono once the image is published, I can certainly tell the difference while editing. You can do more with the monochrom files and they push and pull beautifully.  

There are times when the colour contrast in a scene is the defining attribute, and that picture just won't work in black and white. It happens, I miss shots because of it.  But I'm not really chasing colour anyway so I'm not too fussed when I can't take those... YMMV though.

 

 

 

[tom0511]

I am adding a M11M right now to my M11.

I had  tested a M11M for some months and liked the Output quite abit. But told myself I can domthat with my M11. But formsome reasons I dont like converting as much as with the Mono.

I also find the starting  point how images come out of the mono very appealing. A brilliance and tonality which I liked a lot. I am sure a good post processor can get close to this or maybe same iq.

I dont think I would want to carry both cameras side by side. Too confusing.

I plan to shhot more and mainly b+w for a certain time. But bring the M11 color eventually for occasions where I know in advance I want color.

looking forward to have fun.

 

[Luke_Miller]

6 hours ago, tom0511 said:

I dont think I would want to carry both cameras side by side. Too confusing.

I plan to shhot more and mainly b+w for a certain time. But bring the M11 color eventually for occasions where I know in advance I want color.

That is what I do with my M240 and M246.  When I go out I plan to shoot either color or B&W, so only one goes with me.

[Derbyshire Man]

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I use a Q2M for my native B&W. Mostly as I find the B&W EVF a great part of the experience of working in monochrome. For the ultimate in low light B&W the autofocus and stabilisation can be really helpful. I probably would buy a monochrome M body, but only if it has an internal EVF option.

Meanwhile I find my 35mm pre ASPH, 35mm FLE and 50mm summilux FLE and 99% monochrome on my M11-P perfect in combination with the Q2M.

[Stevejack]

On 3/3/2024 at 7:45 PM, Derbyshire Man said:

I use a Q2M for my native B&W. Mostly as I find the B&W EVF a great part of the experience of working in monochrome. For the ultimate in low light B&W the autofocus and stabilisation can be really helpful. I probably would buy a monochrome M body, but only if it has an internal EVF option.

Meanwhile I find my 35mm pre ASPH, 35mm FLE and 50mm summilux FLE and 99% monochrome on my M11-P perfect in combination with the Q2M.

The Visoflex works very well on the M11 + M11M, as you say the B+W preview is extremely helpful. The good thing about the Visoflex is that it flips up, and I find this especially useful with wide lenses because you can easily correct for angled lines due to perspective distortion without needing to get down on your knees or hold a half-squat.
With kids I also find the flip up Visoflex makes it easy to bring the camera height closer to their height without needing any physical gymnastics. 

I had the Q2 for a while, and I've been thinking about the SL2-s for use with M lenses but the built in EVF and no ability to flip out the screen is actually what held me back. I would prefer the SL2-s over the SL3 but with the rumoured flip screen it just might sway me. 

[Derbyshire Man]

@Stevejack Yes, I have a visoflex 2 and it works *OK* rather than well (although resolution not a patch on the Q2M). It should be possible to focus via this with needing enlargement and that is a marginal pursuit! And if it wasn't so damn ugly and make it impossible to get into my camera bag!

[Viv]

I love B/W photography. I use my M11 in mono mode for that purpose.

I have often considered buying the M11M, but I don't know whether the additional improvement in image quality from the M11M would be sufficient to justify the cost.

[Derbyshire Man]

19 minutes ago, Viv said:

I love B/W photography. I use my M11 in mono mode for that purpose.

I have often considered buying the M11M, but I don't know whether the additional improvement in image quality from the M11M would be sufficient to justify the cost.

Where I think there is a huge difference is in low light work. I've just been on a night time visit to the Alhambra with my M11-P in monochrome and Q2M. There is a difference in noise, banding, resolution and malleability of the files. Obviously this goes for available light portraiture/street as much as architectural.

The M11-P is clearly better than a roll of TMAX 3200 but not a patch on the Q2M.

In some ways however, lower resolution files with large areas of crushed black are what most of us expect from low light photography anyway and there is a risk that modern technology which can retrieve data from the shadow 'too well' ends up looking like one of those 1940's/1950's 'nighttime' scenes where the DoP had under-exposed during daylight to produce a very very unconvincing nighttime effect!

Edited March 5, 2024 by Derbyshire Man

[Viv]

3 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Where I think there is a huge difference is in low light work. I've just been to a night time visit to the Alhambra with my M11-P in monochrome and Q2M. The is a massive difference in noise, banding, resolution and malleability of the files. Obviously this goes for available light portraiture/street as much as architectural.

The M11-P is clearly better than a roll of TMAX 3200 but not a patch on the Q2M.

In some ways however, lower resolution files with large areas of crushed black are what most of us expect from low light photography anyway and there is a risk that modern technology which can retrieve data from the shadow 'too well' ends up looking like one of those 1940's/1950's 'nighttime' scenes where the DoP had under-exposed during daylight to produce a very very unconvincing nighttime effect!

Thank you.

I had not considered the Q2M ....

[Derbyshire Man]

2 minutes ago, Viv said:

Thank you.

I had not considered the Q2M ....

The other 'benefit' that it has is easy autofocus for if the light/contrast really is poor and image stabilisation. Makes it a low light killer. Obviously you can't use a 200mm lens on it though😂

[shirokurome]

Love my M11 Mono. If anything, its liberating to be able to shoot with Auto ISO and be able to use reasonably fast shutter speeds even when the suns down because I know the noise is minimal or not that much of a problem. Other than that, its a joy to use and I take it with me everywhere. Love the camera.

[algrove]

The only way to know is use both, even if it means renting an M11M. But beware it could cost you more than the rental fee in the long run.

When I want impactful images I use M11M with red filter when plenty of sky present.

For me hard to use both on same outing.

[Derbyshire Man]

On 4/2/2024 at 5:21 PM, algrove said:

The only way to know is use both, even if it means renting an M11M. But beware it could cost you more than the rental fee in the long run.

When I want impactful images I use M11M with red filter when plenty of sky present.

For me hard to use both on same outing.

In what way hard algrove?

I'm suppressing the thought strongly but I could imagine a world where one had an M11M with a 35mm pre-ash and a M11-P with the 35mm 1.4 FLE or 50m 1.4 FLE for maximum  ready to shoot flexibility. I hate changing lenses and zooms even more! It would weigh a bit, physically & financially! I sometimes do this with my Fuji X100.

[algrove]

9 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

In what way hard algrove?

I'm suppressing the thought strongly but I could imagine a world where one had an M11M with a 35mm pre-ash and a M11-P with the 35mm 1.4 FLE or 50m 1.4 FLE for maximum  ready to shoot flexibility. I hate changing lenses and zooms even more! It would weigh a bit, physically & financially! I sometimes do this with my Fuji X100.

I prefer to think in B&W or color.  Thus I use a B&W camera for my B&W vision.

Color is a different story for different story.

[bkbboy]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:34 AM, mmradman said:

How do you screw digital filter onto the lens?

Hmmm... very carefully?

[n8fire]

I bought the M11-P and started realizing I was converting most of my pictures to black and white so ultimately decided to buy an M11M as an experiment to try it out and since then, it's definitely been the one with me most of the time.  While it's true that the b&w conversion works well for the M11-P and the results can be similar in many cases, I find the M11-P to be perform poorly in low light settings and that's where the M11 Mono shines in my opinion.  Also it's fun to use coloured optical filters and experimenting with those.  

I rarely carry both cameras with me as I mostly go out with a single camera / single lens but when i do take both camera with me, it's not been any different than with any other 2 camera set-up for me.  I'd probably take both on a trip just to have more flexibility or bring another brand of camera to complement the mono.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[algrove]

OP

You knew what you were going to do when you started this thread. Congrats.