Summicron M 35mm V4 Question

[Ozan]

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Hello fellow Leica enthusiasts!

I use a Summicron M V4 35mm on my Leica M10-R. I attached a photo I recenty made. 

I seem to not be able to get sharp photos with this lens most of the time.

This photo was made with an apperture close to f2,4 (from the exif data which is not the exact aperture). I had the LV on and had the focus assist enabled.

Am I doing somthing wrong or is this because of the V4 and M10R combo.

I would appreciate some opinions.

Cheers,

Ozan

 

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[adan]

The 35 Summicron v.4 design is over 40 years old now. It won't ever look like a modern ASPH design. Especially at f/2.0-2.8 and towards the corners.

But that image looks a bit fuzzier in the center than normal.

However, it may just be back-focused (the railing on the stairs at left looks like the sharp plane of focus).

Unless you really need f/2.0 in dim light - a lens best used at f/5.6-8 for across-the-picture resolution and DoF.

Edited December 15, 2023 by adan

[a.noctilux]

50 minutes ago, Ozan said:

I had the LV on and had the focus assist enabled.

In your place I would try again using rangefinder.

M should be using (for best result) with RF with older lens and wide angle.

 

That said, LV and focus assist can be good for longer lens ( 50-560mm ! ),

not quite good for wide angle lens.

[DwF]

14 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

In your place I would try again using rangefinder.

M should be using (for best result) with RF with older lens and wide angle.

 

That said, LV and focus assist can be good for longer lens ( 50-560mm ! ),

not quite good for wide angle lens.

I agree. While wide open the 35 v4 is not the flat field of say 28 Elmarit v4 or these newer lenses, this lens is fully capable of producing a sharp and pleasing group photo like this one. 

I would stop to f4 or 5.6, and rather than draining the energy of your subjects while trying to hit focus on the eyes, find a clear vertical line of a face or nose, and as Arnaud suggests, using the rangefinder. Don't forget to tell them to say "Persimmon" .

David

[jaapv]

+1 The rangefinder is so much easier, faster and more precise.

[dpitt]

+1 for using the rangefinder for a 35mm lens.

The strange F2.4 aperture value is due to the camera guessing the aperture. There is no coupling mechanism between aperture and the M body.

If you use LV, you should use magnification focus aid, because the focus peaking aid is not 100% accurate. It shows area's that are in sufficient focus. This is not the same as critical focus.

[spydrxx]

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IMHO focus peaking often misses the mark - ever so slightly. Go with magnification or the RF.

[rtai]

At that distance even at F2 the dof should have covered any minute focusing error. Take another photo with the RF and take it again with LV and compare. Maybe your lens need an adjustment.

[lct]

As far as my German made copy is concerned, the Summicron 35/2 v4 is not significantly softer than a Summicron 50/2 v4 from the same period. No problem to focus it with EVF on Leica M and Sony cameras. Here at f/2, FF and crop on M11.

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Edited December 15, 2023 by lct

[lct]

Same combo at f/2, FF and crop:

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[la1402]

I found the 35mm v4 to be surprisingly sharp on my M11. It could your sample or focusing or something else. 

[Ozan]

Thanks a lot everyone for the comments. I am taking the lens and the camera to check the coupling. I made some more trials in a controlled environment yesterday with apo-summicron (at the Leica Shop Vienna). And the differences were not significant at higher apertures (at least for street photography).

Is the available light also a source for the unsharpness? Is the v4 prone to coma a lot? Any experiences on that?

But at the end what I gather is that I should use this lens at min f4. 

I like the shallow DoF more tho.

[lct]

1 hour ago, Ozan said:

[...] I gather is that I should use this lens at min f4.

Not my point of view. Look at my pics above at f/2. Softer results may come from the lens itself when focusing in LV mode with focus magnification, which is the most acurate method to me. In your case, it may just be that your lens needs some calibration. Déjà vu on several pre-digital lenses when using them on digital cameras. Happened to me a couple of times with other M lenses. In both cases (90/2 v3, 90/2.8 v2) Leica fixed the issue while coding the lenses for digital.

Edited December 16, 2023 by lct

[Alberti]

and, while  mentioned "and had the focus assist enabled." - do not use the EVF with the 'guessed focus confirmation' - I turned it off, as it often gives a wrong interpretation on this body. Use the RF. It might be lens dependent.

Sure the 35/IV is not like a an asph; but with a group in the image centre like you have, it should be 'good enough': the corners play no role in the composition.

Secondly, if your copy is old, the grease might have hardened. That means, the focus-helix will turn in little steps, jump so to say, and then you have no control. (this is what my repairman Will van Manen Kamera-Service in Holland said of a lens I showed to him.)

When asking for lubrication/regreasing, it is better to have a full CLA, as indeed, some parts of the picture (the outer figures_ are vague.) I hope that can be remedied.

 

[adan]

9 hours ago, Ozan said:

Is the v4 prone to coma a lot? Any experiences on that?

Yes. In fact it (and its design-cousin, the compact 35 f/1.4 Summilux pre-ASPH) are poster-children for astigmatic coma. It goes with their compact size and 20th-century double-gauss design.

Note the "fairy wings" on the decorative lights, top-left corner/side, in this 2001 film picture with the v.4 35mm.

I should note, however, that the v.4 is still my favorite 35mm, so I've learned to "work around" its characteristics - and always focus with the rangefinder.

And lct is correct that it has (or should have) great resolution in the center of the image, even at f/2.0 (my hand-held, ISO50, 1/60th sec grab-shot example notwithstanding 😉 ).

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Edited December 16, 2023 by adan

[nodrog]

I love this lens (I have the German-made version), but I do find it frustratingly hard to focus at f2-2.8. My go-to aperture range for this lens is between f5.6 and f8. For critical focus at wide apertures, as has been mentioned, it may be better to use the rangefinder and take a few extra shots, moving slightly between each one, or the LV at highest magnification. I also find it better to turn off the focus peaking capture assistant feature; too much distraction and not 100% accurate, imo. Maybe look at calibration, too?

[lct]

3 hours ago, nodrog said:

I love this lens (I have the German-made version), but I do find it frustratingly hard to focus at f2-2.8. My go-to aperture range for this lens is between f5.6 and f8. For critical focus at wide apertures, as has been mentioned, it may be better to use the rangefinder and take a few extra shots, moving slightly between each one, or the LV at highest magnification. I also find it better to turn off the focus peaking capture assistant feature; too much distraction and not 100% accurate, imo. Maybe look at calibration, too?

Different experience here. I find the Summicron 35/2 v4 as easy to focus as my other 35/2 lenses, especially at full aperture, but i favour the EVF with focus magnification. The RF of both my 240 and M11 works fine but i would need to do focus bracketing to get results as accurate as on my pics above, especially on the M11 where the least inaccuracy appears at 60mp.

[Alberti]

Indeed super shart and healthy contrast with V4. Distance, mid-field all OK.
The lens is as easy as the V1, more exiting.

And indeed on the M10-R it is harder to focus than on the M240, but I knew that was part of the bargain. The higher res show small differences more. As well, the LRc profiles are a nightmare with lenses that are not the current Leica offering. [But that is another story, in which I noted that the profiles create artefacts.]

But the enxample of the OP, never seen that wobbling effect.

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[LuisL]

I myself have found that I am capable of hitting focus with this lens (German version) reliably using the range finder for stationary objects shooting wide open. 

About half the time I miss perfect focus wide open taking portraits of people (not sure if its the subject moving slightly or maybe because I'm trying to line up the eyes - small target - as perfectly as possible VS a clear edge of some sort on a stationary object). - have had no problems stopping down to f4

Also... (when you use the RF)... On the M10r vs the M10 I've learned it's been extra important for myself to ensure the viewfinder/windows are clean when trying to shoot wide open... it's something that's helped me out when I first got this combo and found myself frustratingly missing critical focus all the time (feels like I could get away with it on the M10 vs the M10r - imagine the same for m11 - I always wipe it down now if I'm going to be taking a series of meaningful photos at wider apertures - the increased megapixels punishes any little misfire).

[rtai]

Short of using a tripod, with the latest digital cameras I never shoot below 1/1000s for any focal length and for street always at 1/2000 or higher. With film I can do 1/15 but that’s the main advantage of technology to eliminate another variable for unsharp photos.